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Why can't we like DeMar AND JV?

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  • #61
    Yabadabayolo wrote: View Post
    that three year span has been the best three year span in the history of the toronto raptors

    three more franchise best year pls
    Kyle Lowry and Jonas Valanciunas are more responsible for this

    Not DD

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    • #62
      OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
      Kyle Lowry and Jonas Valanciunas are more responsible for this

      Not DD
      Also more responsible for the debacle against Washington.

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      • #63
        JawsGT wrote: View Post
        Also more responsible for the debacle against Washington.
        True

        Though what I take from that is that...DD has virtually no impact

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        • #64
          But seriously boys, y'all got the blinders on. There is no practical way to assess the talent on the team when the style of play the team uses is just so awful. The 13-14 season, after the Rudy trade, is more like the way this team needs to play in order to reach it's potential. And overall, both Lowry and DD performed better last season (although I would argue that DD is a better player now than he was last year, but did not perform that way, and Lowry just needs to get his head out of his ass).

          This is a pretty good basketball team and has plenty of talent to make noise in the EC. Can we win it with this group? I don't think so, but that has as much to do with LBJ than our own roster. I don't think there is a single team in the East that can take down Lebron without significant changes to their players, coaches, style etc.

          So the question really comes down to whether or not you believe there is a path to contention in the East while LBJ still dominates? Personally, I'm not sure there is, so I would be fine with tanking, which I believe would involve trading both DD and Lowry. However, I'm not fine with dismantling the roster simply because DD has poor shot selection or JV's development is being (apparently) stunted and he's not getting enough touches. Those are bad reasons to make moves, when clearly the larger issue is the style of play being employed by the coaches and/or management. And I say management here, because the change in style of play between seasons and ultimate implosion of the team reeks of meddling by upper management. I'm not sure anymore how much blame is Casey's, because if most of what went wrong with this team was really his fault, then I have to believe he would have been relieved.

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          • #65
            OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
            True

            Though what I take from that is that...DD has virtually no impact
            Well of course you would lol. But I should add that I don't blame JV for anything. He probably could have done more in some aspects, but he wasn't responsible for the terrible team play. JV probably deserves the "has virtually no impact" descriptor more than DD. But for me, Demar did what he could, especially when you consider how awful Lowry and Lou were. Sure, he did take some poor shots, but that's not a change really. If Demar meets the "has virtually no impact" criteria, then I wonder if any positives he did bring to the table were just outweighed by the negatives that others (Lowry mostly) brought to the table. And those were very big negatives. One would have to be like LBJ to overcome the absolute shitty play that Lowry and Lou managed.

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            • #66
              OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
              Kyle Lowry and Jonas Valanciunas are more responsible for this

              Not DD
              Really, Jv had more of an impact than dd did. Really man.

              Dd was the best player in the playoffs, nobody else showed up. Jv didn't even play for most of the year. How was he more instrumental that demar. That literally makes no sense

              The stretch where demar was injured shows you how important he is to the team. Lowry had to play balls out and we still were playing pretty poorly.
              I'm back. I no longer worship joe johnson

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              • #67
                Yabadabayolo wrote: View Post
                Really, Jv had more of an impact than dd did. Really man.

                Dd was the best player in the playoffs, nobody else showed up. Jv didn't even play for most of the year. How was he more instrumental that demar. That literally makes no sense

                The stretch where demar was injured shows you how important he is to the team. Lowry had to play balls out and we still were playing pretty poorly.
                Getting rid of the 15 game "Bargnani" Start to the season when the team was catching major breaks and playing way beyond their means that leaves the raps with the following.

                Season win record 36-31 - win % of .5373

                With Demar
                24/22 - Win % of .522

                Without Demar
                12/9 - Win % of .571

                Unless I am mistaken, .571 is better than .522

                Which is why Demar winshare/48 on the team, amungst players averaging at least 20 minutes is 7th out of 9. only having more impact on wins over Ross and Vasquez.
                Last edited by Bear; Tue Jun 2, 2015, 04:11 PM.

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                • #68
                  Bear wrote: View Post
                  Getting rid of the 15 game "Bargnani" Start to the season when the team was catching major breaks and playing way beyond their means that leaves the raps with the following.

                  With Demar
                  24/20 - Win % of .545

                  Without Demar
                  12/9 - Win % of .571

                  Unless I am mistaken, .571 is better than .545

                  Which is why Demar winshare/48 on the team, amungst players averaging at least 20 minutes is 7th out of 9. only having more impact on wins over Ross and Vasquez.
                  K so if your going to exclude the part when the team was doing so well with demar. You gotta also exclude all the games when lowry was playing like an MVP. Cuz that also screams 15 game bargnani too !
                  I'm back. I no longer worship joe johnson

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Yabadabayolo wrote: View Post
                    K so if your going to exclude the part when the team was doing so well with demar. You gotta also exclude all the games when lowry was playing like an MVP. Cuz that also screams 15 game bargnani too !
                    No, because it wasny demar winning those 15 games, demar started the season poorly, we just caught teams injured, ill prepared etc. The team overplayed.

                    If anything the teams ridiculously improbable start speaks more to everyone else other than demar.

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                    • #70
                      Bear wrote: View Post
                      No, because it wasny demar winning those 15 games, demar started the season poorly, we just caught teams injured, ill prepared etc. The team overplayed.

                      If anything the teams ridiculously improbable start speaks more to everyone else other than demar.
                      *Lou Williams getting stupid hot was also more effective at winning games than DD was this season

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                      • #71
                        Bear wrote: View Post
                        Getting rid of the 15 game "Bargnani" Start to the season when the team was catching major breaks and playing way beyond their means that leaves the raps with the following.

                        Season win record 36-31 - win % of .5373

                        With Demar
                        24/22 - Win % of .522

                        Without Demar
                        12/9 - Win % of .571

                        Unless I am mistaken, .571 is better than .522

                        Which is why Demar winshare/48 on the team, amungst players averaging at least 20 minutes is 7th out of 9. only having more impact on wins over Ross and Vasquez.
                        To be fair, one could argue that the "Bargnani" stretch actually continued on even after DeMar got injured. Style of play was the same yet the team kept winning going 11-5 I believe over the next 16 games.

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