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DeRozan for #5

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  • Axel
    replied
    Bonus Jonas wrote: View Post
    I'm almost considering making an account on a magic forum and asking them if they'd do #5+Nicholson for DD just to show you guys consensus is a flat out no.
    If you can get a consensus on a forum, you'd be considered a god among mere mortals.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bonus Jonas
    replied
    draps wrote: View Post
    most magic fans have probably convinced themselves by now that winslow or johnson is the perfect fit for them and wouldnt want to do the deal
    they probably feel like either is a good compliment to their backcourt with payton and oladipo who will both be really good defenders, and oladipo a soild shooter
    Yikes at johnson that high

    I actually checked a magic forum. Looks like they're all looking at Winslow or Hezonja

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  • draps
    replied
    most magic fans have probably convinced themselves by now that winslow or johnson is the perfect fit for them and wouldnt want to do the deal
    they probably feel like either is a good compliment to their backcourt with payton and oladipo who will both be really good defenders, and oladipo a soild shooter

    Leave a comment:


  • DogeLover1234
    replied
    white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    That doesn't mean it's not stupid. Trying to bring Kurt Thomas out of retirement to sign to a one year 5M+ deal would be better.

    I mean, Charlotte, a young team that desperately needed scoring when they had him, told him to stay the fuck away. That's a fairly risky kind of guy to sign in basically any scenario.
    They were not trying to win games tho. They just wanted to develop young players and get a high draft pick

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  • maputo88
    replied
    On another note I believe the original post on this thread was for other ideas on DD & KL. Bill Simmons mentioned a month ago a trade of KL for Sacto's #6, Nik Stauskas and their PF (Thompson?). This seems much more likely than the Orlando trade, and I think it should be done if Stanley Johnson or Justise Winslow is available.

    Leave a comment:


  • maputo88
    replied
    The unspoken assumption throughout this thread is that Justise Winslow would be available. Would you do the trade if the choice at #5 was between Stanley Johnson, Mudiay, and Kritaps Porzinga?

    Leave a comment:


  • Bonus Jonas
    replied
    Primer wrote: View Post
    An Orlando fan posted here and said he'd do the deal, so it's not as dumb or outrageous as you think. Orlando does it to get a wing who can score 20+ points per game and a veteran (but still young-ish) all star. If they don't want to pay Harris the max or close to it, they're going to lose him and his 17 pts per game. Derozan comes in and replaces that. Oladipo is too small to be a SG and plays more like a PG. Fournier is bench material at best. Derozan is an upgrade for them at SG and they can also play him at SF. Frye, Oladipo, Fournier, and Harris (if they keep him) are all good 3pt shooters, so I don't know why people keep saying they need 3pt shooters. Everyone on their team sucks at drawing fouls other than Oladipo, and Derozan is much better at it than him. Derozan would bring a lot of things to the table that the Magic don't have and I could realistically see the deal happening. I'm not a Derozan fan, but he's not some worthless player like a few of the posters make him out to be. He could be really good for the right situation.
    I agree with your last two sentences. But nothing anyone says is gonna convince me that they're not set on Payton-Dipo as their backcourt of the future.

    And that fan is biased, seeing as he's posting and has an account on a raptors forum.



    I'm almost considering making an account on a magic forum and asking them if they'd do #5+Nicholson for DD just to show you guys consensus is a flat out no.

    Leave a comment:


  • Primer
    replied
    Bonus Jonas wrote: View Post
    And if anyone's argument is that Orlando's done dumb things in the past and they might do one again (which I've seen multiple posters say) you're acknowledging that it's a bad trade for them and just basing them accepting off of hope. Might as well offer the max to Butler and hope he accepts and Chicago doesn't match since they lost Asik and Korver for nearly nothing.
    An Orlando fan posted here and said he'd do the deal, so it's not as dumb or outrageous as you think. Orlando does it to get a wing who can score 20+ points per game and a veteran (but still young-ish) all star. If they don't want to pay Harris the max or close to it, they're going to lose him and his 17 pts per game. Derozan comes in and replaces that. Oladipo is too small to be a SG and plays more like a PG. Fournier is bench material at best. Derozan is an upgrade for them at SG and they can also play him at SF. Frye, Oladipo, Fournier, and Harris (if they keep him) are all good 3pt shooters, so I don't know why people keep saying they need 3pt shooters. Everyone on their team sucks at drawing fouls other than Oladipo, and Derozan is much better at it than him. Derozan would bring a lot of things to the table that the Magic don't have and I could realistically see the deal happening. I'm not a Derozan fan, but he's not some worthless player like a few of the posters make him out to be. He could be really good for the right situation.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mess
    replied
    Ben Gordon has caused more chemistry issues in this thread than he ever did in Orlando and probably Charlotte.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bonus Jonas
    replied
    And if anyone's argument is that Orlando's done dumb things in the past and they might do one again (which I've seen multiple posters say) you're acknowledging that it's a bad trade for them and just basing them accepting off of hope. Might as well offer the max to Butler and hope he accepts and Chicago doesn't match since they lost Asik and Korver for nearly nothing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bonus Jonas
    replied
    209/623 for Payton/Dipo/DD/Harris/Vuc
    So 33.5%

    258/730 for Payton/Dipo/DD/Frye/Vuc
    So 35.3%

    321/916 for Lowry/DD/Ross/Amir/JV
    So 35.0%

    But again, that Frye lineup is trash defensively, so much so that they could be the best offense in the league (wouldn't even come close) and would still probably be a net negative.

    And I'm ignoring the fact that Lowry had the worst 3point% season in 5 years, Ross regressed from last year, Harris had by far his best 3point% season ever and Frye had his best 3point% season in 4 years. Law of averages says Lowry and Ross shoot better next year and Frye and Harris both dip.

    Leave a comment:


  • planetmars
    replied
    mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
    Reminiscent of 2009.....




    I wonder if Orlando looks at their roster and thinks, "We have a lot of youth and we're going to keep Tobias" so lets add some quality, veteran role players to fill out the roster.


    Essentially the deal would be: Vasquez, Patterson, Ross for #5, Harkless, Nicholson.

    Now that trade would be illegal under CBA rules but:

    1) Vasquez for #5 (absorbed in to $7.1M cap space)
    2) Patterson for Harkless, Nicholson ($700k cap space plus the $150% + $100K)
    3) Ross could be traded after July 10th in to Orlando cap space (in fact it could all be done after July 10th quite easily).


    Very unlikely this happens but Orlando already experienced how hard it is to get free agents last summer (losing out on Patterson) and then found out what happens when you overpay (Frye). They already have a lot of youth - and again if they decide to keep Harris regardless given they are nowhere near the salary floor and the 4-6 year max contract being a starter level salary starting in 2016-17.


    Or if this appears to be highway robbery, which it probably is, maybe Toronto eats Channing Frye's contract in which case Frye, Harkless, Nicholson, #5 for Vasquez, PP, Ross goes through straight forward.
    Would love something like that if Masai could pull it off.

    Leave a comment:


  • white men can't jump
    replied
    planetmars wrote: View Post
    Orlando is really a small market team that has had a lot of home grown talent leave in free agency. Small market teams make dumb decisions when it comes to ownership and selling tickets.

    Milwaukee traded for Redick. Gave away Harris in the process only to not make the playoffs and watch Redick leave in free agency anyway.. turned out to be a terrible waste of an asset and a dumb decision.

    Orlando however could be on the opposite side of a decision like that.. as there aren't a lot of all-star talents that could be available in a trade, even on a one year deal. They might look at DD and throw analytics out of the window because they believe that an infusion of some talent (even if its not the right kind) could get them over the hump. If shooting is a concern for them then why draft Payton when McBuckets was still available?

    Personally if I was working for Orlando I'd tell the GM to slam the phone down on Masai if an offer like this was presented.. but sometimes decisions that get made are not good basketball decisions.
    Or draft Aaron Gordon with a #4 overall pick in a supposedly stacked draft.

    Thank you for at least acknowledging that teams can make stupid choices. That there are pressures, or simply errors in judgment, that can lead to making a move for whatever reason, even if to objective, outside observers it seems bad.

    Leave a comment:


  • planetmars
    replied
    Orlando is really a small market team that has had a lot of home grown talent leave in free agency. DD seems like a loyal guy that they might believe would stay. Small market teams make dumb decisions when it comes to ownership and selling tickets.

    Milwaukee traded for Redick. Gave away Harris in the process only to not make the playoffs and watch Redick leave in free agency anyway.. turned out to be a terrible waste of an asset and a dumb decision.

    Orlando however could be on the opposite side of a decision like that.. as there aren't a lot of all-star talents that could be available in a trade, even on a one year deal. They might look at DD and throw analytics out of the window because they believe that an infusion of some talent (even if its not the right kind) could get them over the hump. If shooting is a concern for them then why draft Payton when McBuckets was still available?

    Personally if I was working for Orlando I'd tell the GM to slam the phone down on Masai if an offer like this was presented.. but sometimes decisions that get made are not good basketball decisions.

    Leave a comment:


  • white men can't jump
    replied
    Bonus Jonas wrote: View Post
    Just saw your edits which are not helping your case whatsoever.

    1. Not many free agents would have wanted to sign to a partially guaranteed deal on a bad team unless they aren't going to get any other offers at all. So yeah I guess they could have signed Mike James. But it's a good deal regardless because of the asset he's become.

    2. Great job skewing your numbers by moving Fournier to the starting lineup. That wouldn't happen in a million years because Oladipo has that one stamped in. Their most likely starting 5 would be Payton/Dipo/Demar/Vuc and Frye/Harris.

    So 26.2%/33.9%/28.4%/33.3% and one of 39.3%/36.4%.

    However, putting Frye in means you've got your entire frontcourt which is flat out bad defensively (and like you just mentioned Frye is useless other than his ability to shoot three's, he's a worse version of Novak).
    Fournier started 32 of 58 games he appeared in last year. So over half his games. And yes, Oladipo started all but one he dressed for. But with Skiles coaching, anything is possible because he'll try to find lineups that work well together instead of starting spots being given out based on draft position entitlement. He's a tactically minded, stubborn coach...as opposed to Jacque Vaughn who basically did nothing for 2 and a half seasons.

    Oh, and even that "worse" starting lineup has about the same shooting ability as our starting lineup did last year.

    On the free agent note...the reason guys aren't big on signing partially guaranteed deals is because the only guys open to that are ones trying to salvage their careers. But that's usually a bad sign because they've been enough of a problem to destroy their own careers. It's not like Ben Gordon is washed up. He's just 31. He should be winding down the prime of his career, instead he's just a chess piece. Oh, and he hasn't become much of an asset yet. He only really becomes one if they manage to get something for him.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Sun May 31st, 2015, 08:00 PM.

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