TimW: Are Raptors Fans too Willing to Settle?

[mcHAPPY]

Off the mainpage - http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/2015/...ng-to-settle/:

Tim breaks down main arguments for being continuing with current state of Raptor affairs:


Money shot to end:

No one achieved anything worthwhile by aiming low.

Another article is relevant to this topic. I am only going to include Raptor parts of this article - Toronto: City of Losers

The Raptors, in this their twentieth season, have won a grand total of one, I repeat one, playoff series.

[MixxAOR]

Doesn't matter if we aim low or high. We're not in control. We're just observers. Collectively dreaming about championships doesn't solve our issues. I don't know why we're so preoccupied with what fans think. Even if we are ok with tanking and support the franchise, management has to draft right, develop right, keep talent here. Maybe MLSE is too willing to settle? Then what? The only solution is to stop going to the games. But not all fans who go to ACC to watch games are Raptors fans.

[Bendit]

As one of the quotes said, the first step is to convince free agents of consequence that it is worthwhile signing here (for competitive reasons). Which is why the way the past second half of the season was so very disappointing.

Clearly as has been discussed within the forum there were multiple problems/issues....and seemingly nothing was done/or were failed at, to address them...and to date much of the status quo (other than the cosmetic firing of 2 asst coaches) still exists. I understand the season is not yet officially over for other events to take place but because of my earlier point on f/ as' and our draft position I remain in a blah mood.

[Mediumcore]

Didn't click on the link but was there any mention of Canada basketball and the importance of the growth of the sport within our own borders? If "their" players don't want to play for a Canadian team then fuck 'em, we will help make our own stars.

[Superjudge]

Off the mainpage - http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/2015/...ng-to-settle/:



Tim breaks down main arguments for being continuing with current state of Raptor affairs:










Money shot to end:




Another article is relevant to this topic. I am only going to include Raptor parts of this article - Toronto: City of Losers. It

But if you don’t, here’s a quick recap of the city’s dismal results since 1995.

Ugh. Thats a lot of ink for nothing.
There are close to 6 million people within about 250 kms of Toronto.
Thats why there will always be full seats.

[psrs1]

Toronto sports scene last 20years .......losing, losing and more losing.

[McRealistic]

As one of the quotes said, the first step is to convince free agents of consequence that it is worthwhile signing here (for competitive reasons). Which is why the way the past second half of the season was so very disappointing.

.

BAM .... That is how you aim high. You have to WIN ... Wining is everything in this league.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

It's a circular argument, because every team-building strategy is about winning. It all comes down to the window for winning and the perceived ceiling associated with that winning window.

To argue that a fan that supports a particular strategy, whether it's build around the current core or to rebuild the core, doesn't want to win, is just fooling and ignorant. I enjoy a good debate over strategy, but I have yet to encounter a RR poster who doesn't want winning as the ultimate end goal of their preferred strategy. Suggesting an alternate timeframe for achieving that goal doesn't make a poster less of a fan or willing to settle. To some people wanting to maintain the status quo of winning seasons to lose early in the playoffs is settling; to others, accepting losing to rebuild in order to have/hope for a better team that can win more down the road is settling. Neither viewpoint is right or wrong, just different.

Articles/posts like that are just trolling for clicks and the resultant argument, which has been going on for the past 3-4 seasons (really since the summer before Bosh's final season).

[Mess]

Money shot to end:

No one achieved anything worthwhile by aiming low.

So he doesn't want to tank for draft picks then.

[mcHAPPY]

So he doesn't want to tank for draft picks then.

*yawn*

[Mess]

*yawn*

That was my reaction to the article.

[aaron.in.toronto]

Yes... I had a lot to say about this before, but it is true the fans can aim where ever they like, it will have little or no difference, it is just a state of mind that can be hard to handle when even the supporters don't believe in the process. If we won't demand a winner from the fan side I think it is scratching the surface of the real debate...

Is the ownership and management actually operating under this premise as well... If the the people running the team are aiming low to avoid the disappointment then this is a problem that has to fixed... The fans and MEDIA really have a small role, the pressure must come from inside that is why I liked Tim Leiweke and why I advocate the path of getting a young super-star that is owed a legit run at whatever window and level of achievement they have in them...

I think this is the only way for us because of the BRAND, and the HISTORY, two things we cannot change... Unless we get the type of player that can turn this around we will be left waiting for free agents and trades to come and save us. Even if you feel we need to trade and sign guys to win then having a centre piece that they can come and believe in is critical.

The Raptors (please new name for god's sake...) are the Raptors and the Knicks, Lakers, and Celtics are different and we will not change into that type of iconic franchise and attract players based on that no matter how much we complain that our city is just as good.

Those iconic teams can be like that, every other team needs to go through the cycle of building and rebirth that we refuse to go through. They suck till they get good player(s) through the draft and then build around a star or group of young talent that has a leader type emerge.

Look at the Tampa Lightning ( I hate hockey but..) they got top picks building a winner around Vinny L. Once they weren't going to win they sucked again traded the assets and got another top pick in Stamkos and are now back in the finals. This has all happened TWICE while the Raptors have been treading water for the last 20 years. Are they seen as model team that's so awesome players sign there no matter what? Not really they just have the real pieces in place committed to the actual process that works and are back on top.

I don't see the shame or problem with doing the right thing. The Raptors have not done the right thing and have not had success.

[aaron.in.toronto]

Even the Celtics are doing the reset now because they are smart enough to know they do not have a star leader to attract top talent.

The Lakers and Knicks are taking a last desperate shot at it because they have Kobe and Melo, that is their pitch to the free agents. No one goes to those places unless they have a super-star, that is why Love is trying to stay in Cleveland of all places. Not because they are a top-notch team that does things right, they have Lebron and Kyrie, end of story. People don't get that there will always be a promising young star somewhere and that will always trump being run properly ( Pels anyone...).

Even they know this to be true and are trying to combine a top tier leader with the iconic lure and that is how they win (which goes against some of my points before but it is still the truth...).

Do you see major free agents and trades happening to buoy them up and keep them in the game? NO. They don't bother unless they have top player first, then they build.

[The Great One]

Damn. I didn't even know there are people that writes about the Raps in this website. When i visit this site i just usually go straight to the forums lol!

But anyway, didn't click on the link and i'm too lazy to read the whole thing but i like this line a lot: “Before the Raptors can build a championship-contending team, they have to become a true contender for free agents’ services,” Adande wrote.

How do you do that? win. This goes back to my 'building a winning culture' rant last week lol. Free Agents wants to come to a team that cares about winning not a team that cares about ping pong balls.

[DanH]

The reality is free agents want to come to teams with superstars, not teams that win a few games and hit a wall in the playoffs.

And if you accept that it is an extraordinary long shot to sign a superstar in free agency (when you don't already have one) and that superstar trades are very rare (and you need crazy assets to make it happen), then drafting that superstar is the quickest route to being able to sign free agents. And the cap space that comes with a rebuild doesn't hurt either.