Everything 2025 NBA Draft

[SkywalkerAC]

I think we need to look at the great success history of the 9th pick.

Not necessarily because that’s the highest we can pick this year but because there must be a different mindset and/or drafting environment that comes with drafting and knowing you’re drafting after the top guys are off the board. Maybe that’s because that’s where the first guy that “drops” falls to, maybe it’s because it gives front offices breathing room to draft based on fit instead of notoriety, maybe it’s…just a fluke?

Is this even still a trend? Is there going to be someone there at 9 that can be a legit star? A feather in our cap is that we could use both a rangy forward and a guard - finding a ‘fit’ shouldn’t be that hard.

[SkywalkerAC]

1996 had 11 Allstars in the top 20 I think - that’s not too much to ask for is it?

[LJ2]

I think we need to look at the great success history of the 9th pick.

Not necessarily because that’s the highest we can pick this year but because there must be a different mindset and/or drafting environment that comes with drafting and knowing you’re drafting after the top guys are off the board. Maybe that’s because that’s where the first guy that “drops” falls to, maybe it’s because it gives front offices breathing room to draft based on fit instead of notoriety, maybe it’s…just a fluke?

Is this even still a trend? Is there going to be someone there at 9 that can be a legit star? A feather in our cap is that we could use both a rangy forward and a guard - finding a ‘fit’ shouldn’t be that hard.

9th is the highest we can pick in the coming draft?

[SkywalkerAC]

9th is the highest we can pick in the coming draft?

That’s not what I said or was trying to say at least.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Yeah as I tried to explain above Norm and Malachi had different expectations. Norm was surrounded by better players and had to fight to get minutes. Flynn wasn't. But his struggles were easier to spot since we needed him to produce quicker. We had no depth and he was part of that depth solution.

I'm expecting more from Ochai this season too. He didn't show much improvement in SL with much younger players around him. And that's not great. I think again though when you are playing on a team that's not very good, and as a young player you struggle, the spot light grows larger. If he was the 14th or 15th man on the team, nobody would really care if he was still on the team after this year. For Ochai though he has to be a better 3pt shooter. He's a 3&D player that's undersized. If he can shoot the 3, the size disadvantage he has in covering wings won't matter as much. But if he continues to struggle to shoot than yeah you can find someone else that can learn that role better. He's a cheap investment. We gave up pick #29 for him. If they decide to give up on him after this year, then sure. It frees up another roster spot at minimum. But I don't think investing in him is hurting anyone, especially since our options out at the wing are slim.

As for "high skill floor". I'm not really sure what you mean by that. I guess if Bosh qualifies than I need more examples. There are various NBA level skills guys need. Scottie has high IQ. High passing ability. And is built like a juggernaut. Or are you only simply looking at guys that are skilled at ISO scoring?

I mean when you look at any draft profiles there are strengths and weaknesses that you are trying to figure out. ISO scoring is just one aspect. I mean there are guys like Cam Thomas and Jordan Poole who can do that, but suck at most everything else. Masai (and Tolzman) usually like to draft multi dimensional guys, and I have no issues with that. They did draft Jalen Harris and found Terrence Davis off the UDFA market. But again I could be reading "high skill floor" incorrectly here. To me showing elite capabilities at one skill is a high skill floor player. To me Gradey Dick is a high skill floor player. As is Scottie. I don't have a high reading on the rooks that we have this season. And SL was a disaster again. But I'm waiting to see what these kids look like next to real NBA players. Walter is expected to be a good shooter. Shead a good defender and leader. Mogbo a good facilitator.

But cutting ties early isn't really a problem for rookie scale contracts. You can just drop their QO at the end of their rookie deal. Or ship them out in a trade like we did with Flynn and Precious.

skill as in iso scoring the ability to pass shoot dribble at a high level from day one. Scottie was lacking the handle and the consistent shooting.

[planetmars]

skill as in iso scoring the ability to pass shoot dribble at a high level from day one. Scottie was lacking the handle and the consistent shooting.

Yeah and that's pretty rare to find right out of the gate. So I don't think "high skill floor" was the right description. There is more to skill than having a guy that can shoot, pass and dribble. Tim Duncan was skilled, and he could only do one of those things well.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Yeah and that's pretty rare to find right out of the gate. So I don't think "high skill floor" was the right description. There is more to skill than having a guy that can shoot, pass and dribble. Tim Duncan was skilled, and he could only do one of those things well.

I would say Duncan could pass and shoot. He could dribble at a moderate level for a big man at that specific time.

We are getting forwards and wing players who can't do that which is a major issue.

It is rare to find those but they exist in the top 4 usually and in the top 4 of that draft they existed. I am not saying we shouldn't have drafted Barnes I am pointing out we have had a draft strategy that has been odd when coupled with the trades we have made as well.

Barnes wants to be a point guard and to be a point guard he did not come in with a high skill floor for that position. Meaning he has needed to work on some of these things but also he needs a coach putting him in the best position. Barnes handle has been bad especially if you are going to have him be a primary ball handler. We lacked having solid guard skills in our pipeline because "everything you try to develop". Why not draft different skillsets. Instead of investing in some AI shooting machine.. get a better shooting coach and draft a shooter. We got lucky because gradey fell to us and gradey's draft was a deep draft.

[SkywalkerAC]

Not sure if I'm missing the point, but Scottie is obviously a much better shooter (unless you're just talking about 16 feet and/or bank shots) and ballhandler than Duncan ever was, better passer as well of course.

[planetmars]

I would say Duncan could pass and shoot. He could dribble at a moderate level for a big man at that specific time.

We are getting forwards and wing players who can't do that which is a major issue.

It is rare to find those but they exist in the top 4 usually and in the top 4 of that draft they existed. I am not saying we shouldn't have drafted Barnes I am pointing out we have had a draft strategy that has been odd when coupled with the trades we have made as well.

Barnes wants to be a point guard and to be a point guard he did not come in with a high skill floor for that position. Meaning he has needed to work on some of these things but also he needs a coach putting him in the best position. Barnes handle has been bad especially if you are going to have him be a primary ball handler. We lacked having solid guard skills in our pipeline because "everything you try to develop". Why not draft different skillsets. Instead of investing in some AI shooting machine.. get a better shooting coach and draft a shooter. We got lucky because gradey fell to us and gradey's draft was a deep draft.

Duncan can't shoot unless it's near the rim. And he's an okay passer. But ultimately still super skilled. I just don't like your definition of "high skill floor".

Scottie isn't the point guard though. They just gave $31M to a guy who is.

And they do draft different skillsets. It's just Pascal and Scottie were both big wings that like to handle the ball and can pass, but can't shoot. So it feels like that's all they draft. But it's just not true. Besides Pascal was drafted 27th. Their lottery pick that year was a center.

The "type" they like to draft are guys with really good analytics that can also play both ways and have a good head on their shoulders.

[SkywalkerAC]

How many power forwards can dribble better than Scottie. Can't be more than 5.

[SkywalkerAC]

Back on topic, on first glance I'm not too thrilled with the tall-wings I'm seeing projected in the 7-9 pick range, but still tons of time to fall in love. McNeeley maybe? Ruzic? Gonzalez?

[TrueTorontoFan]

Duncan can't shoot unless it's near the rim. And he's an okay passer. But ultimately still super skilled. I just don't like your definition of "high skill floor".

Scottie isn't the point guard though. They just gave $31M to a guy who is.

And they do draft different skillsets. It's just Pascal and Scottie were both big wings that like to handle the ball and can pass, but can't shoot. So it feels like that's all they draft. But it's just not true. Besides Pascal was drafted 27th. Their lottery pick that year was a center.

The "type" they like to draft are guys with really good analytics that can also play both ways and have a good head on their shoulders.

Actually this is very much wrong.


Someone doesn't remember Duncans hilarious but money bank shot from mid range. https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/tim...eer-shot-chart

No you aren't going to diss the best power forward of all time.

I am talking about their drafting strategy since Kawhi left. Best player is a powerforward... go draft a powerforward.. OK that is fine you could have made it work but then they drafted a center (fine), then went and traded for the wrong center AFTER trading for Thad.... The thad trade was OK but ultimately it was a bad move. I liked the move at the time but i thought they could have gotten turner and bobby admitted that. They were also close to getting KP. These would have been much smarter moves. They needed a point guard at the time or someone who could run a unit off the bench and they got thad... that helped becacuse our bench was so aimless and bad but still.... thad was on his last legs.



EDIT**


Siakam's shot was fine if you used him out of the corners. Darko tried to turn him into a volume above the break shooter rather than having him space from the corner. That is entirely on Darko. OG should have been above the break but he used OG from the corner... Notice that after the mid november Pascal ended up shooting near 40% from deep and that continued on into indiana. Yes the space got better but ultimately the shift was on the court ... you may or may not remember but darko admited that pascal talked to him about how he was being used and there was certain shifts.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Also pascal could shoot but darko used him to shoot from the wrong spots on the floor. he was a 40% shooter from the corners but they used him from above the break.. and OG was shooting corners when he was a better above the break shooter. Gradey stood in the corners when he is a movement shooter. Pascal ended up shooting 40% taking out games before mid november and focusing just on toronto. He shot way better in indiana but he was able to both have gravity as well as shot well when used effectively. That is on the coach. The coach gets too many excuses for the season.. but the reality is he was not using players in an optimal way.. why use Poeltl and Precious as a hub when you have pascal and Barnes.

dude finally figured out you use pascal and barnes in a pick and roll near the end of the lakers game FINALLY and then went away from it.

[TrueTorontoFan]

How many power forwards can dribble better than Scottie. Can't be more than 5.

here is the problem though... they dont see him as a powerforward they are using him as a guard. but even still. Let's split the difference and call him a wing since his biggest supporters comp him to Luka and Lebron lol.



Lebron, Luka, Tatum, Brown (yes he is better at handling and better at creating), Pascal, Tobias Harris, Randle, AD, Giannis, KD when he plays the 4, Paolo, Chet plays the 4 and even when he doesn't better handle, Paul George played the 3/4, zion, jabari smith, keegan murray, Jalen williams is a 3 but sometimes plays the 4 ... same measurements as Barnes coming in and is way better as a dribbler.



Ok lets continue... if you expand out further to include true wings since barnes still has PG on his insta profile...expanding to wings is being fair and generous. Mikal Bridges, Butler, Franz is smoother with his handle yes, Kawhi if you want to include him, Grant, Kuzma, Trey Murphy. Deni Adenvi. Ben Simmons has a WAAAAY nicer handle he is just never healthy and can't shoot but in terms of handle and footwork its there.. go watch the tape. Jalen Johnson plays the 4 in ATL better handle. Not a fan personally of Johnathan Isaacs but he may have a better handle. Amen Thompson plays the 4.... better handle.



Go look at the tape.. near the end of the year Bruce Brown was being used as a powerforward with Barnes being healthy.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Scottie is obviously a much better shooter (unless you're just talking about 16 feet and/or bank shots) and ballhandler than Duncan ever was, better passer as well of course.

....if Barnes could knock down a 16 footer like duncan you realize he would easily be scoring +24 points just walking out there night after night. Duncan was an underrated passer but yes Barnes has flashier passing sure. Maybe he is a better ball handler but duncan used his body well and had control and finishe better around the hoop.