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The Raptors and the first 6 drafts of franchise history

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  • The Raptors and the first 6 drafts of franchise history

    The Raptors did it right initially.

    Of course there were all sorts of other issues that messed things up but in terms of getting talent they nailed it.

    1995 - 7 - Damon Stoudemire
    1996 - 2 - Marcus Camby (would have been #1 except for expansion rule)
    1997 - 9 - Tracy McGrady
    1998 - 4 - Wince Carter (traded for 5)
    1999 - 5 - Jonathan Bender (traded for Antonio Davis after swapping with Denver 18 for 5)
    2000 - 21 - Morris Peterson

    That is a very good streak of drafting.

    Of course the real story is the instability and poor decision making within the franchise that led to:

    Stoudemire traded in his 3rd year.
    Camby traded in his 2nd year.
    McGrady* leaving as a free agent after his 3rd year.
    Carter** leaving after 7 years of instability and mismanagement.
    Bender acquired with a switch of 18 for 5 and then trade for a veteran, 31yo big that had just a few years left.
    Peterson becoming the type of glue guy every franchise needs when they are trying to win.


    But that is how you build a team through the draft. Now nearly 20 years later.....

    Hopefully the ownership situation is much more stable than the late '90s.
    Hopefully management is more stable and cognizant of cap killing contracts.
    Hopefully the coaching situation can find a balance between X's and O's and challenging players without resorting to lawsuits or physical confrontations.
    Hopefully the players are over the metric system and the ignorance of the early day of playing in Canada.



    *The McGrady situation is really bad. It was McGrady leaving Toronto that ushered in the era of restricted free agency.
    **The Carter situation is also a bad growth experience for the league. It was Carter's refusal to give effort and publicly stating a wish to be traded that brought in the rules of fining for public trade requests.

  • #2
    and to think that if it weren't for the expansion rule in 1996, they would've draft AI (I'm pretty sure it was confirmed sometime during this season by Josh Lewenberg)

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    • #3
      Ah, memories

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      • #4
        memories....

        Yea our scouts really nailed the draft those years...we started our series of draft mistake in 2001 when the consensus pick for the Raps was Zach Randolph but we ended up taking Michael Bradley due to "character risk issues" with ZBo at the time and it was all downhill from there. In defence of the Damon & Camby trades I remember an interview with Butch Carter (or Grunwald) about those years that made complete sense, he said that they had talked at length about the direction of the team and made the decision to trade Damon & Camby who had both become very unhappy in Toronto (Billups was moved that offseason as well) and instead of trying to develop 5 young players at the same time, focus development on VC & Tracy (who had the highest ceilings) while surrounding them with veteran players (they brought in Oakley & Willis, then Curry, Mugsy etc) what ended up killing the entire plan was TMac not resigning.

        Carter leaving has everything to do with management rather than him. they were just 2 years removed from a record breaking season and a shot away from the ECF and they were showing no sign of acting like a contender. in 2003, JVG had shown interest in coaching the Raps but they went with Kevin O'neal, In 2004 he wanted Dr. J as GM or consultant to help bring in marquee FA's but they went with Babcock, the same year Jamal Magloire (All-Star at the time) was on the trade block and Steve Nash was a FA that he wanted them to bring in but they didn't want to open up the pocketbooks. In hindsight, every move he requested would have most likely brought us a championship. So you have to look at the frustration from the players POV as well.

        Also yea Vancouver & Toronto were not allowed to draft #1 overall in 1996....so one of the Canadian teams would have had AI but regardless 96 draft was a HOF year (Ray Allen, Kobe, Nash) so we both missed out on franchise players.

        Hopefully this organization learned from those days...
        Last edited by RepTdot; Mon Jun 8th, 2015, 02:29 PM.

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        • #5
          GinobilisBaldSpot wrote: View Post
          and to think that if it weren't for the expansion rule in 1996, they would've draft AI (I'm pretty sure it was confirmed sometime during this season by Josh Lewenberg)
          Or the change in college requirements we could have had Durant or Oden.

          And before you say ew to Oden...he was a solid player prior to the injury plague.

          And we got Bosh

          Historically outside of AB, the Raptors have had a very good history in the top 5 of the draft.

          I find it funny that there are those that argue against tanking by bringing up our late lotto history (while we were treadmilling). Realistically the only time we as a franchise have experienced success is with top 5 draft picks.

          "Winning takes balls"

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          • #6
            OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
            Or the change in college requirements we could have had Durant or Oden.

            And before you say ew to Oden...he was a solid player prior to the injury plague.

            And we got Bosh

            Historically outside of AB, the Raptors have had a very good history in the top 5 of the draft.

            I find it funny that there are those that argue against tanking by bringing up our late lotto history (while we were treadmilling). Realistically the only time we as a franchise have experienced success is with top 5 draft picks.

            "Winning takes balls"
            Winning one best-of-5 first round series is success?

            I don't recall our past success being that much better than the first round washouts we've just seen the last 2 seasons. It probably 'felt' better with Vince because he was an exciting young player and it was our first time making the playoffs, but the results are/were pretty much the same.

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            • #7
              golden wrote: View Post
              Winning one best-of-5 first round series is success?

              I don't recall our past success being that much better than the first round washouts we've just seen the last 2 seasons. It probably 'felt' better with Vince because he was an exciting young player and it was our first time making the playoffs, but the results are/were pretty much the same.
              That Vince Carter team was special! If his shot goes down against Philly...we play the Bucks, who we definitely could have beat...which means we could have been swept by the Lakers in the Finals!

              Seriously - that team wasn't far off from making the Finals. That's kind of insane.
              "Stop eating your sushi."
              "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
              "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
              - Jack Armstrong

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              • #8
                JimiCliff wrote: View Post
                That Vince Carter team was special! If his shot goes down against Philly...we play the Bucks, who we definitely could have beat...which means we could have been swept by the Lakers in the Finals!

                Seriously - that team wasn't far off from making the Finals. That's kind of insane.
                Assuming that team would beat the Bucks is like assuming the Raptors would get to the ECF this year because they had Atlanta and Washington in their bracket instead of Chicago or Cleveland.

                Vince missed that shot, but the Raptors still lost 3 other games to the 76ers in that series (and they needed all 5 games to beat NY).

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                • #9
                  planetmars wrote: View Post
                  Assuming that team would beat the Bucks is like assuming the Raptors would get to the ECF this year because they had Atlanta and Washington in their bracket instead of Chicago or Cleveland.

                  Vince missed that shot, but the Raptors still lost 3 other games to the 76ers in that series (and they needed all 5 games to beat NY).
                  Sorry, but it's not even close to assuming that.

                  Carter's team had star power, it had veteran leadership, a hall of fame coach, good shooting and good defence - night and day when compared with this year's team. This year's team, the way they were playing, probably loses a series against literally every NBA team other than the Knicks and Lakers. Bracket didn't mean nothing.
                  "Stop eating your sushi."
                  "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
                  "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
                  - Jack Armstrong

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    golden wrote: View Post
                    Winning one best-of-5 first round series is success?

                    I don't recall our past success being that much better than the first round washouts we've just seen the last 2 seasons. It probably 'felt' better with Vince because he was an exciting young player and it was our first time making the playoffs, but the results are/were pretty much the same.
                    "Success" meaning at least making the playoffs. It is relative to that because the history of our franchise sucks.

                    We can go back to being a sub .500 non-playoff team and draft Joey Grahams and Ed Davis' if you would like...but personally I wont go through anymore of that BS from this franchise.

                    Get the star no matter what. Once we have a star then try and win

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                    • #11
                      Who cares? That was ages ago and kind of irrelevant to now.

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                      • #12
                        pretty insane when you think those 6 guys, had they been kept together, would have been a powerhouse. buuuut no.
                        @sweatpantsjer

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                        • #13
                          Yeah it's amazing how things can be fucked up so quickly. I get there are growing pains but man, that's likely a lot of people out of their depths.

                          But was Jonathon Bender for Antonio Davis really a bad trade? I get that they traded Billups for the pick used on Bender, but they also got the MoPete pick in the same deal.
                          Two beer away from being two beers away.

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                          • #14
                            Mess wrote: View Post
                            Yeah it's amazing how things can be fucked up so quickly. I get there are growing pains but man, that's likely a lot of people out of their depths.

                            But was Jonathon Bender for Antonio Davis really a bad trade? I get that they traded Billups for the pick used on Bender, but they also got the MoPete pick in the same deal.
                            With how things worked out for Bender, no, it wasn't a bad trade at all.

                            The negative slant I put on the trade had more to do with the circumstances leading up to the trading of Bender.

                            Imagine if the lineup had been:

                            PG: Stoudamire
                            SG: Carter
                            SF: McGrady
                            PF: Davis
                            C: Camby

                            That would have been a great use of the pick. But unfortunately, all the other stuff outside of talent got in the way leading the Raptors to rely on a rotation that by 2000 had 6 of 9 players well in to their 30s (Davis - 31, Oak - 36, Bogues - 35, Willis - 37, Brown - 31, Curry - 35).

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                            • #15
                              RepTdot wrote: View Post
                              memories....

                              Yea our scouts really nailed the draft those years...we started our series of draft mistake in 2001 when the consensus pick for the Raps was Zach Randolph but we ended up taking Michael Bradley due to "character risk issues" with ZBo at the time and it was all downhill from there.
                              ZBo did have a ton of character issues at that point though. In fact it was a big problem everywhere he went until he got to Memphis.

                              I can't imagine Toronto being the place where he turned that around.

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