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Has Everyone given up on DD

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  • #61
    OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
    Pretty much

    Most of what my google searching has turned up are articles from the media saying that they should trade DD

    But there are very few with fans actually wanting DD because there are better fish to go after
    I get what you're saying, but I think it's a bit of a stretch. Using a google search to determine a team or leagues projected value of a player might be a little archaic in today's nba.

    DeMar was voted all-star by eastern conference coaches. So even though some might say he was voted in by default because there weren't any better options, id remind them of jimmy butler and lance Stephenson who were both having good years then.

    I can guarantee you that teams are constantly inquiring about players in general, and it never gets out. It's part of the day to day business of the NBA.
    DeMar would more than likely be involved in at least some of those inquiries.
    Sunny ways my friends, sunny ways
    Because its 2015

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    • #62
      Uncle_Si wrote: View Post
      I get what you're saying, but I think it's a bit of a stretch. Using a google search to determine a team or leagues projected value of a player might be a little archaic in today's nba.

      DeMar was voted all-star by eastern conference coaches. So even though some might say he was voted in by default because there weren't any better options, id remind them of jimmy butler and lance Stephenson who were both having good years then.

      I can guarantee you that teams are constantly inquiring about players in general, and it never gets out. It's part of the day to day business of the NBA.
      DeMar would more than likely be involved in at least some of those inquiries.
      Remind them of Lowry, who was way better than DeMar, Lance, Butler and half the all stars that year.

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      • #63
        BobLoblaw wrote: View Post
        Remind them of Lowry, who was way better than DeMar, Lance, Butler and half the all stars that year.
        Wasn't the consensus that they had to put a Raptor on the team and DeMar was more liked by the coaches then Lowry? Cause was no other reason for why Lowry didn't make it that year.
        "My biggest concern as a coach is to not confuse winning with progress." - Steve Kerr
        "If it's unacceptable in defeat, it's unacceptable in victory." - Jeff Van Gundy

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        • #64
          JawsGT wrote: View Post
          I understand where you are coming from but the thing is, we do not have a Steph Curry. And that's it right there. This guy is the most insane shooter I've seen. There is literally no bad shot for him to take, he is that good that he demands attention wherever he is on the court, whether he has the ball in his hands or not. Curry could be the Reggie Miller of the current NBA, and he is I guess, but he is also an incredible ball handler and has impressive vision. He knows when he can shoot, when he can drive and when he should pass. If you watch enough GSW ball, you will quickly realize that Curry's shot selection isn't that great...for almost everyone else in the league, but for him it's acceptable, and he's learned to leverage that ability in order to bend defenses and make plays.

          The Raps have no one even close to having that ability. Nonetheless, I understand that you are mostly suggesting we have better ball movement, and I couldn't agree more.

          But again, we have roster limitations...not with regard to passing as Casey may have suggested, but with the ability to make plays that lead to easy passes for easy buckets.

          As for Derozan, this comes back to his handle IMO. He improved significantly last season relative to the previous campaign, but he is not where a player needs to be in order to be a really effective playmaker. It seems like he is somewhere between having to handle the ball with his eyes down and focus on his handle and immediate defender to being able to dribble fluidly with his head up and completely assess the defence. The latter is an elite skill, and guys like Curry have it, which I think is extremely important to his effectiveness. Nash had this skill, Paul has it, Irving has it, all mostly point guards. But Harden is pretty close to elite (not as good as the previous mentioned, but good enough) as well as LBJ and Durant. Derozan is clearly a step or two beneath these guys, and given that we run alot of offence through Demar, it's easy to see how the problems arise in our "system".

          As viewers, we often see passes that Demar (and others) should make but do not. It's easy when you have an elevated view of the court as a viewer, but as a player at court level with a less than elite level handle, transitioning from dribble to passing with an eye on that open player under the basket or on the other side of the court isn't so easy. Remember, unless you have an elite level handle, it's difficult to focus on what's going on on the court outside of what's happening immediately in front of you. So there are obvious passes that we as fans can see, that Demar as the ball handler may not.

          Now, I'm not trying to make excuses here. Demar passed up on many pretty obvious passes throughout the season, especially inside to JV that regardless of his handle or vision, should have been made. He can clearly be better in that regard. Nonetheless, if he wants to be elite, and if the Raptors want to continue to run offence through him, he has to improve even more with regard to his handle. His ability to dribble fluidly with his head up, without having to worry about being picked or coughing up the ball, is the most important part of his game that he needs to improve upon going forward.

          Being able to shoot the 3 at a respectable level would help of course, but it's hard to envision Demar as a knock down 3pt shooter, regardless of the time and effort he puts into it. Good shooters are usually good when they enter the league. I don't doubt Demar could improve to average level, or maybe a little above but him sniffing the 38%+ mark is somewhat unrealistic. It is, however, more realistic for him to continue to improve his handle, and as a better ball handler I think his vision, playmaking and maybe even shot selection could improve.
          You've said a lot of interesting stuff here.

          I wasn't really trying to suggest Derozan is the same player as Curry-- not even remotely-- but rather point out the divergence of habits as a primary scoring option. I completely agree Derozan does not have the shooting ability as curry but he can be equally effective as a player through taking some of that extra defensive pressure off himself with the volume shooting he does and make other team mates legitimate scoring threats by passing up his own shot to give them a shooting opportunity. I believe this first starts as a mental transition then he can adopt those play making habits afterwards. I swear basketball is purely a mental game before anything else.

          I don't think Derozan needs to be as good as Curry at all. I just think he just needs to use his head and make better decisions on the court so he can become an effective player. That is all what I was saying.

          I think Curry's shot selection is actually pretty good. Most of his shots are off the pick and roll, playing off the ball and getting wide open shots off screens, or creating his own shot by beating his man off the dribble or creating enough space to be open enough to get his jumper off. The real advantage Curry has over most point guards is that he can create his own space by the dribble and i feel he only really uses this advantage when his team is in a desperate situation and needs a basket scored. Kerr's offence is designed to get their players open shots or feed the open man for the most part of what i've seen and it seems the warriors always capitalize on those easy shots.

          I agree that Derozan doesn't have elite handles but I continue to say that DD's main issue is that he's not a high IQ bball player. He's just not as smart or has been given the proper guidance from his coaches throughout the years. And with Casey at the helm and not really giving DD proper criticism on his game, DD will never become an elite player. To truly improve on anything, you need to first identify your weaknesses and then develop habits that will mitigate them and I don't feel DD has anyone to tell him what those weaknesses are or help him develop habits that address them. I think Casey is more of a cheerleader rather than a real coach.

          There's a lot more of Derozan's game that can be improved like you've suggested: his ball handling but to me he should start with his BBall IQ. I'm not sure if he can really change this aspect of his game overtime especially with the status quo coaching or lack of outside help.

          From watching basketball for so long, its weird how the 2 guard isn't required to be able to shoot the 3 ball anymore. It reflects how the league has changed so much over the years. I don't think Derozan even really needs to have a 3 point shot but it would be better for him if we were to try to trade him.

          I feel since we are not planning on winning a championship anytime soon its better to part ways and sell him at his highest value and work on our younger guys since we are rebranding and starting a new leaf.
          Last edited by BS10; Tue Jun 23rd, 2015, 12:09 AM.
          #JaysWinningLikeItz93'

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          • #65
            draps wrote: View Post
            there's not a coach in the league who wouldn't want demar in their lineup as a number 2 or 3
            There's a lot of teams where demar would be their 4th best player. Okc, cleveland, atlanta, miami, golden state, san antonio, la clip, memphis..and there's an even llonger list of teams where hed be 3rd best..
            It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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            • #66
              KeonClark wrote: View Post
              There's a lot of teams where demar would be their 4th best player. Okc, cleveland, atlanta, miami, golden state, san antonio, la clip, memphis..and there's an even llonger list of teams where hed be 3rd best..
              Toronto should be one of them

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