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  • psrs1
    replied
    raptors999 wrote: View Post
    Warriors fired the head coach and might win a title playing a style that fits the roster they have. Raptors have no clue and the roster and coach reflects that which leads back to MU not doing anything
    So true. I think there would be less frustration if MU didn't retain DC . His wait and see routine would be easier to justify.

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  • KeonClark
    replied
    raptors999 wrote: View Post
    Both Gay and Bargs would be expiring now. Novak expires next season. Since he did nothing with the payroll flexibility its a wash. His idiot coach turns everyone into 40% fg shooters with high usage killing any trade value. Take away the NY first and neither team would reverse the trades
    "Take away the ny first"but why? Why would you take away the new york first? So it can fit your argument? Because that pick alone is enough for bargs and could still be anything from a complete Bust to a hall of famer.

    I understand your anti casey and anti masai, but your argue so hard for your own points you can never give another point credit. One minute he's a crap Gm because he doesn't do enough trades, then people point out good trades and you say "who cares they only had TWO years left on their deal anyway, maaaannn". I think everybody around here is so butthurt about casey its starting to spill over to masai.

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  • draps
    replied
    Masai has done a great job of accumulating assets to slowly increase the value of our team, it's a long steady process. We have a lot of trade assets if he decides to blow it up this year.
    The biggest ones:
    Lowry an all star calibre point guard on a good deal- worth a top 10 pick or good young prospect later pick to a team that wants to compete right away
    derozan an allstar on a cheap expiring deal-worth a top 10 pick or good young prospect to a team that already has their number 1 guy, and needs a sidekick, believes they can make the playoffs and retain him
    valanciunas is worth a top 5 pick, people want to hate on him already like 23 year old centers are supposed to be great already, but he will be and good bigs are hard to find

    ross is a cheap deal for a team that needs shooting, plays an uptempo style, probably believe a change of scenery would help him
    patterson is valuable as a stretch 4 on a reasonable deal
    vasquez to a team who loses their pg for the season, on an expiring
    lou will resigned and traded to a team who needs scoring help off the bench
    amir if resigned will be very valuable to a team who needs a good 3rd big
    jj is expiring and can be a good wing defender for a contender

    potential guys to sweeten deals in bruno, bebe
    plus we have picks to move,

    i believe he will do a good job moving them when the time comes, or be a major player should a star player come up on the market
    Last edited by draps; Mon Jun 15, 2015, 01:15 PM. Reason: stupid phone

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  • Uncle_Si
    replied
    S.R. wrote: View Post
    I really don't understand what "he hasn't done anything" means when 12 out of 15 players will have been acquired by or signed a contract with Masai Ujiri by opening night this fall. And the three guys who haven't yet signed a deal with Masai (DD, JV, TR) are all going into the final year of their current contracts. By next offseason, Masai will have directly dealt with 100% of this roster.

    Bold: that is my favourite part, where in one comment you state the Bargs deal was meaningless and a wash (may as well let him expire), then in the next comment you acknowledge MU screwed the Knicks so bad in that deal that he inadvertently shot himself in the foot by doing such a good job that it became a news story and made other GM's afraid. I mean if you can have your cake and eat it too while supporting your own anti-MU points, why not, right?
    Raptors999 just says things without thinking them through or looks for arguements. Which is why I blocked him. Now if only I could block the messages he's quoted in...

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  • S.R.
    replied
    raptors999 wrote: View Post
    It's not a quota but a GM that can't make deals isn't a GM. Saying there are no offers isn't good enough. Also, allowing the media to promote how he screwed NY as a deal maker makes future deals harder. Morley is one extreme but Masai might be the other. If no one want to deal with him he is reduced to trying to be a scout. No other GM gets lauded for getting great deals and that's a problem
    I really don't understand what "he hasn't done anything" means when 12 out of 15 players will have been acquired by or signed a contract with Masai Ujiri by opening night this fall. And the three guys who haven't yet signed a deal with Masai (DD, JV, TR) are all going into the final year of their current contracts. By next offseason, Masai will have directly dealt with 100% of this roster.

    Bold: that is my favourite part, where in one comment you state the Bargs deal was meaningless and a wash (may as well let him expire), then in the next comment you acknowledge MU screwed the Knicks so bad in that deal that he inadvertently shot himself in the foot by doing such a good job that it became a news story and made other GM's afraid. I mean if you can have your cake and eat it too while supporting your own anti-MU points, why not, right?

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  • BS10
    replied
    raptors999 wrote: View Post
    Warriors fired the head coach and might win a title playing a style that fits the roster they have. Raptors have no clue and the roster and coach reflects that which leads back to MU not doing anything
    I agree but they also kept their players together rather than constantly traded players for the sake of making moves and being an active GM. Sometimes not making a move is making a move when it comes to trading key players on your team. That was my point.
    Last edited by BS10; Mon Jun 15, 2015, 10:52 AM.

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  • raptors999
    replied
    BS10 wrote: View Post
    It takes time to understand what you've got out the trade and how the newly acquired player fits into your squad. Developing chemistry with the other players on the squad and to get a real basketball connection takes a while. There is a observation and reflection period has to be done. Not all players click immediately.

    Look at the GSW, they've struck gold with how their team has developed such great chemistry overtime. Imagine if they traded Klay Thompson last year to get K. Love? Or if they traded Steph Curry to the Celtics for Rajon Rondo in 2012? Would they have been as good as they are now or better? Most unlikely.

    This is Masai's time to look upon the roster and see what he needs to improve and get rid of on our team. The only knock against him is bringing back the same coach for next year so far. Otherwise, the moves he's made have been beneficial ones for the Raptors long term goals and perhaps overall perception of the team.
    Warriors fired the head coach and might win a title playing a style that fits the roster they have. Raptors have no clue and the roster and coach reflects that which leads back to MU not doing anything

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  • BS10
    replied
    raptors999 wrote: View Post
    Not less profitable, but Novak + 2nd to the Jazz was probably his best deal. Small deals that tweak is a better measure of a GM then either the Bargs or Gay trade. Hawks looking like they lost the Lou William trade helps them on a second deal while Toronto "winning" that trade might have killed future deals. MU hasn't really done anything. Bucks and Dudley was better than the Lou deal but nobody says the Clippers were taken by the Bucks GM
    It takes time to understand what you've got out the trade and how the newly acquired player fits into your squad. Developing chemistry with the other players on the squad and to get a real basketball connection takes a while. There is a observation and reflection period has to be done. Not all players click immediately.

    Look at the GSW, they've struck gold with how their team has developed such great chemistry overtime. Imagine if they traded Klay Thompson last year to get K. Love? Or if they traded Steph Curry to the Celtics for Rajon Rondo in 2012? Would they have been as good as they are now or better? Most unlikely.

    This is Masai's time to look upon the roster and see what he needs to improve and get rid of on our team. The only knock against him is bringing back the same coach for next year so far. Otherwise, the moves he's made have been beneficial ones for the Raptors long term goals and perhaps overall perception of the team.

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  • Mess
    replied
    raptors999 wrote: View Post
    Not less profitable, but Novak + 2nd to the Jazz was probably his best deal. Small deals that tweak is a better measure of a GM then either the Bargs or Gay trade. Hawks looking like they lost the Lou William trade helps them on a second deal while Toronto "winning" that trade might have killed future deals. MU hasn't really done anything. Bucks and Dudley was better than the Lou deal but nobody says the Clippers were taken by the Bucks GM
    True, everyone says it was a terrible move by the Clippers. Just like what they say about NY and Bargnani.

    Anyway, I think it's obvious we both just have different standards of judging trades. It sounds like you'd prefer if Masai had tweaked a roster that had won 23 and 34 games. And also, one of us prefers to base his performance on theoretical moves instead of a trade that got them the 6th man of the year who won them a lot of games.

    I admit there were arguably better and more impactful moves made but that doesn't mean Masai "hasn't really done anything."

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  • Masai Uhearme
    replied
    I know why Masai cant make deals, Everyone says there busy

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  • raptors999
    replied
    Mess wrote: View Post
    Ah I see. From now on he should negotiate less profitable deals for the Raptors so they have more potential trade partners in the future. And also muzzle the media. Or at least spin the media's view into thinking that he's really not that good at his job. Gotcha.

    I mean, I do get that he might be a little too measured and risk-averse for some people's liking. I just think people underestimate how risky it is to tear it all down by swinging for the fences and then trying to rebuild from there. Just getting back to 48-49 wins would be far from a guarantee.
    Not less profitable, but Novak + 2nd to the Jazz was probably his best deal. Small deals that tweak is a better measure of a GM then either the Bargs or Gay trade. Hawks looking like they lost the Lou William trade helps them on a second deal while Toronto "winning" that trade might have killed future deals. MU hasn't really done anything. Bucks and Dudley was better than the Lou deal but nobody says the Clippers were taken by the Bucks GM

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  • Mess
    replied
    Ah I see. From now on he should negotiate less profitable deals for the Raptors so they have more potential trade partners in the future. And also muzzle the media. Or at least spin the media's view into thinking that he's really not that good at his job. Gotcha.

    I mean, I do get that he might be a little too measured and risk-averse for some people's liking. I just think people underestimate how risky it is to tear it all down by swinging for the fences and then trying to rebuild from there. Just getting back to 48-49 wins would be far from a guarantee.

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  • raptors999
    replied
    Mess wrote: View Post
    Do you really think that's Morey's motivations for making deals? Because that's absurd.

    I sincerely hope that an owner would never judge his GM's performance by the GM reaching an arbitrary transaction quota. "Make 3 deals or you're fired!" Give me a break.

    If only the Masai had made moves like Morey, holding on to the Raptors expiring contracts (Gay & Barngani) longer and then turning them into valuable assets (not the garbage Masai got like a 1st round pick and valuable bench players). You know, just like Morey did with Jeremy Lin - trading him and his expiring contract along with a 1st round pick & a 2nd round pick for Sergei Lishchuk. Just some great GM-ing there.
    It's not a quota but a GM that can't make deals isn't a GM. Saying there are no offers isn't good enough. Also, allowing the media to promote how he screwed NY as a deal maker makes future deals harder. Morley is one extreme but Masai might be the other. If no one want to deal with him he is reduced to trying to be a scout. No other GM gets lauded for getting great deals and that's a problem

    Leave a comment:


  • Mess
    replied
    raptors999 wrote: View Post
    One of the duties of the GM is to be able to create deals. A GM that says there were no deals means he isn't able to do his job. Morey makes deals even small ones just to gain a reputation for being willing to pull the trigger. MU hasnt been doing anything
    Do you really think that's Morey's motivations for making deals? Because that's absurd.

    I sincerely hope that an owner would never judge his GM's performance by the GM reaching an arbitrary transaction quota. "Make 3 deals or you're fired!" Give me a break.

    If only the Masai had made moves like Morey, holding on to the Raptors expiring contracts (Gay & Barngani) longer and then turning them into valuable assets (not the garbage Masai got like a 1st round pick and valuable bench players). You know, just like Morey did with Jeremy Lin - trading him and his expiring contract along with a 1st round pick & a 2nd round pick to the Lakers for Sergei Lishchuk. Just some great GM-ing there.

    I guess I'm not smart enough to realize that it's every GM's duty to make a James Harden-like trade and whoever doesn't is a failure.
    Last edited by Mess; Mon Jun 15, 2015, 01:16 AM.

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  • raptors999
    replied
    Uncle_Si wrote: View Post
    It's so funny how people are all over Masai. He got the raptors out of a disasterous situation under the burden of Bargs and Gays contracts and flipped them into a 1st round draft pick that will likely be a lottery pick, an entire bench and 2 playoff appearances in a row. Sure we had 2 first round exits and the team is flawed but, given the state and direction of the team when Colangelo was in charge compared to now, how can you complain?

    Not to mention to job MLSE did in manufacturing one of the most successful marketing campaigns ever with the "We The North" slogan that propelled basketball into the limelight. Which is something everyone here was craving.

    Fuck sakes man. Chill. It's a process. The team is flawed and I'm not a fan of Casey, but I think Masai deserves the benefit of doubt this far in his tenure.
    Both Gay and Bargs would be expiring now. Novak expires next season. Since he did nothing with the payroll flexibility its a wash. His idiot coach turns everyone into 40% fg shooters with high usage killing any trade value. Take away the NY first and neither team would reverse the trades

    Leave a comment:

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