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Everything Norman Powell

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  • Lupe wrote: View Post
    We will get the most out of Norman powells potential by playing him at point guard. It's not a 2/3 debate it's a 1/2 debate.
    I doubt he can be a true point but I could see him playing an Avery Bradley type hybrid role. Off-ball on offence for the most part and versatile on defence between multiple positions. Powell's handles are no where near PG level. Good handles at SG aren't the same thing as PG handles.
    Heir, Prince of Cambridge

    If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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    • True point or not, if I have to choose between Cory and Powell handling the ball then I'd prefer norm. Cory can't pass either. Cory doesn't run the offense well. He doesn't turn it over, plays good defense, he's smart, hustle/heart and finishes well through contact. Solid player but most expendable trade chip imo. Lowry can write his own cheque. Delon might be better for us in the long term backup pg. Fvv is fine. Brings a different look.

      Comment


      • lewro wrote: View Post
        True point or not, if I have to choose between Cory and Powell handling the ball then I'd prefer norm. Cory can't pass either. Cory doesn't run the offense well. He doesn't turn it over, plays good defense, he's smart, hustle/heart and finishes well through contact. Solid player but most expendable trade chip imo. Lowry can write his own cheque. Delon might be better for us in the long term backup pg. Fvv is fine. Brings a different look.
        It's not even about passing, it's handles and turnovers. A good ball handler on the wing isn't the same as a good ball handler at the point. Too many PGs would be able to press and harass Powell off the dribble the length of the court. Powell would likely end up dribbling into traps or forcing difficult passes on too many possessions.

        Cory is a low risk PG on offence and a good defender. Ideal backup but certainly movable in a trade for the right piece(s). I'm not sure how he doesn't "run the offence well" when most of the offence starts with Demar and Kyle getting screens at the top. Not much for Cory to initiate when either of those guys are on the court.

        Considering we have 3 players behind Kyle that are better Point options than Powell, I really don't see the reasoning behind this desire. Delon is the same size, a good defence but with better handles. If we are moving on from Cory for a trade, Delon is a much better option to be Kyle's backup than Powell. There are plenty of minutes that could be siphoned to Powell without forcing him to play out of position where we have better options.
        Heir, Prince of Cambridge

        If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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        • KeonClark wrote: View Post
          Really, the black sheep here is carroll. Either powell or ross should start, the other our 6th man and bench scorer. Figure out the whole SF guard thing by committee, cause carroll ain't some shutdown guy anyway. Problem being, he has the least trade value of the 3 by far, and let's face it, the franchise is forcing it because of the magnitude they've invested. The money is miniscule compared to the statement. He's the one of the only American born free agents with name recognition still in his prime with cache I can EVER remember us signing, let alone in the Ujiri era. They're obviously conscious of the fact they need to give it a longer effort to make him a big factor on the team, make him happy, and ideally, have him finish his contract here and have great things to say.

          Problem is, it's a cold business, and it's bad asset management.
          I don't agree with the "bad asset management' as it's not like they are losing any players and the team is still winning 2/3 games. Powell is playing and getting better and having Carroll in there gives them a luxury with 6 guys for 3 spots, which gives them all sorts of options in terms of rotations now and personnel moves later.

          I do agree that Carroll is going to be given every chance to make it work before they look in a different direction because he was a big $ free agent. And, frankly, the guy has still barely played all that much. If we're judging the team solely by what it does in the playoffs, then the real test will be if Carroll can help them win games in the playoffs this year.

          Comment


          • Axel wrote: View Post
            It's not even about passing, it's handles and turnovers. A good ball handler on the wing isn't the same as a good ball handler at the point. Too many PGs would be able to press and harass Powell off the dribble the length of the court. Powell would likely end up dribbling into traps or forcing difficult passes on too many possessions.

            Cory is a low risk PG on offence and a good defender. Ideal backup but certainly movable in a trade for the right piece(s). I'm not sure how he doesn't "run the offence well" when most of the offence starts with Demar and Kyle getting screens at the top. Not much for Cory to initiate when either of those guys are on the court.

            Considering we have 3 players behind Kyle that are better Point options than Powell, I really don't see the reasoning behind this desire. Delon is the same size, a good defence but with better handles. If we are moving on from Cory for a trade, Delon is a much better option to be Kyle's backup than Powell. There are plenty of minutes that could be siphoned to Powell without forcing him to play out of position where we have better options.
            I mentioned delon and fvv. And that Cory doesn't turn it over.
            Have you watched 905 or LVSL? They been training norm to handle the ball and pass.
            Cory can't run the offence bc all he can do is call his own number or simple handoff/short passes to DD/Kyle coming off screens. Fvv is much better floor general. Ross and norm are both better passing when the help defender collapses. You can read any game thread and see at least one comment complaining about Cory wasting the shot clock. Yes, he does have to initiate some offence, at times and he struggles to do so.

            Norm is strong on the ball the length of the court.

            Also, delon and Cory are not the same size. Delon is slightly taller than norm but norms wingspan is 4" longer.
            The reason to consider norm at point, the reason we've seen him training to run a team in 905 and LVSL, is bc he has potential to be most dominant at that position. Much more so than cory or delon. Norm is a SG learning to shoot. He's a PG learning to handle and pass. I wouldn't bet against norm to do anything he wants to do. He can be a PG if the raps ask him to and he sets his mind to it. He's already a better shooter than delon and Cory and all three were crap two years ago.

            We are seeing a lot scoring pgs in the league. Norm is capable to become that. They drafted an athlete that can defend and has a steel trap mind. He could get to Kyle's level by 30 for sure.

            Comment


            • lewro wrote: View Post
              I mentioned delon and fvv. And that Cory doesn't turn it over.
              Have you watched 905 or LVSL? They been training norm to handle the ball and pass.
              Cory can't run the offence bc all he can do is call his own number or simple handoff/short passes to DD/Kyle coming off screens. Fvv is much better floor general. Ross and norm are both better passing when the help defender collapses. You can read any game thread and see at least one comment complaining about Cory wasting the shot clock. Yes, he does have to initiate some offence, at times and he struggles to do so.

              Norm is strong on the ball the length of the court.

              Also, delon and Cory are not the same size. Delon is slightly taller than norm but norms wingspan is 4" longer.
              The reason to consider norm at point, the reason we've seen him training to run a team in 905 and LVSL, is bc he has potential to be most dominant at that position. Much more so than cory or delon. Norm is a SG learning to shoot. He's a PG learning to handle and pass. I wouldn't bet against norm to do anything he wants to do. He can be a PG if the raps ask him to and he sets his mind to it. He's already a better shooter than delon and Cory and all three were crap two years ago.

              We are seeing a lot scoring pgs in the league. Norm is capable to become that. They drafted an athlete that can defend and has a steel trap mind. He could get to Kyle's level by 30 for sure.
              Powell is running point against D-League competition because they want to improve his handles and it's a good way to give him extra opportunity against players who aren't that good. That doesn't mean he's capable or that the team expects him to play point in the NBA. Being athletic and undersized on the wing doesn't mean a player can become a Westbrook style player. He was a unique case and entered the NBA as a PG despite playing SG at UCLA.

              Powell's handles are much more of straight line drives; he lacks the control to make moves in traffic that most PGs would be expected to do in order to prevent a trapping defence.

              Delon has similar size to Powell - Powell's extra reach is likely necessary against SG and SF while Delon's size is more of PG/SG. The two playing together offers great defensive versatility on the perimeter but it still doesn't demonstrate that Powell is on any path to leap Delon (or Cory) on the PG depth chart.
              Heir, Prince of Cambridge

              If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

              Comment


              • Axel wrote: View Post
                Powell is running point against D-League competition because they want to improve his handles and it's a good way to give him extra opportunity against players who aren't that good. That doesn't mean he's capable or that the team expects him to play point in the NBA. Being athletic and undersized on the wing doesn't mean a player can become a Westbrook style player. He was a unique case and entered the NBA as a PG despite playing SG at UCLA.

                Powell's handles are much more of straight line drives; he lacks the control to make moves in traffic that most PGs would be expected to do in order to prevent a trapping defence.

                Delon has similar size to Powell - Powell's extra reach is likely necessary against SG and SF while Delon's size is more of PG/SG. The two playing together offers great defensive versatility on the perimeter but it still doesn't demonstrate that Powell is on any path to leap Delon (or Cory) on the PG depth chart.
                He's capable to play point in the future if the raps decide to develop that way. For now he just needs mins however he can get them. If the raps trade Ross then Powell will see more time at the 2/3 but if they trade cory than I think he will see get more mins at 1/2. You're setting limits on him before the conditions are even established. Like I said, I wouldn't bet against Powell if the raps decide to develop him as a PG. Right now he's fighting for mins at the 2/3 bc demarre is "hurt". We've seen fvv fill in for Cory at this point. If the raps trade cory and keep Ross/demarre then I wouldn't be surprised to see Powell play more like a 1/2. We've seen him be our best defender vs kemba and struggle vs melo. 1/2 is a better matchup for him in most cases. His handles and vision aren't that bad or couldnt be developed. I'd say his vision and decision making is already better than cory. He'll get there with his handle if that's how it plays out and likely be just as competent as Cory and be better in other aspects of running PG. They would have focused solely on his shooting in dleague/LVSL if they only wanted him to be a SG bc he certainly needed to improve there. He improved at both. No reason to think he can't continue. The log jam is his roadblock, not his skills or ability to improve.

                Comment


                • Powell seems to be accepting DD as a mentor type. At least work ethic wise. And also refusing to have any limits put on himself. It would seem to be foolish to put ANY limits on him, especially given his trajectory so far.

                  Comment


                  • lewro wrote: View Post
                    He's capable to play point in the future if the raps decide to develop that way. For now he just needs mins however he can get them. If the raps trade Ross then Powell will see more time at the 2/3 but if they trade cory than I think he will see get more mins at 1/2. You're setting limits on him before the conditions are even established. Like I said, I wouldn't bet against Powell if the raps decide to develop him as a PG. Right now he's fighting for mins at the 2/3 bc demarre is "hurt". We've seen fvv fill in for Cory at this point. If the raps trade cory and keep Ross/demarre then I wouldn't be surprised to see Powell play more like a 1/2. We've seen him be our best defender vs kemba and struggle vs melo. 1/2 is a better matchup for him in most cases. His handles and vision aren't that bad or couldnt be developed. I'd say his vision and decision making is already better than cory. He'll get there with his handle if that's how it plays out and likely be just as competent as Cory and be better in other aspects of running PG. They would have focused solely on his shooting in dleague/LVSL if they only wanted him to be a SG bc he certainly needed to improve there. He improved at both. No reason to think he can't continue. The log jam is his roadblock, not his skills or ability to improve.
                    Puffer wrote: View Post
                    Powell seems to be accepting DD as a mentor type. At least work ethic wise. And also refusing to have any limits put on himself. It would seem to ne foolish to put ANY limits on him, especially given his trajectory so far.
                    While I'm sure Powell appreciates the unwavering faith, if it were as simple as some here are suggesting than we would see a flood of elite wing players become more point oriented. I guess Leonard and Paul George are just too lazy to do it.

                    Good handles for a wing doesn't make a player capable of being a PG and since we have a few options for the backup role already, I really don't see any logical reason for Powell to try to develop down that path.

                    D-League roles had Delon as the leading scorer and a shoot first PG - should we assume that he is going to try and be a score first PG when he plays or would it not be logical to assume that he will continue to be a PnR passer with good defence who uses the D-League to develop the weaker areas of his game?
                    Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                    If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                    Comment


                    • Axel wrote: View Post
                      While I'm sure Powell appreciates the unwavering faith, if it were as simple as some here are suggesting than we would see a flood of elite wing players become more point oriented. I guess Leonard and Paul George are just too lazy to do it.

                      Good handles for a wing doesn't make a player capable of being a PG and since we have a few options for the backup role already, I really don't see any logical reason for Powell to try to develop down that path.

                      D-League roles had Delon as the leading scorer and a shoot first PG - should we assume that he is going to try and be a score first PG when he plays or would it not be logical to assume that he will continue to be a PnR passer with good defence who uses the D-League to develop the weaker areas of his game?
                      Kawhi and PG are 3-6" taller than norm, not that we aren't seeing guys like Simmons and Giannis being trained to run the point.
                      Yes, the log jam was the point that I made. We will see whether Ross or cory gets traded or if demarre is hurt or declining. Norm has stepped into any role asked of him so every reason to be confident.
                      Delon will be score first in dleague if he's paired with scrubs. If he's paired with yak then I'd expect a balance between pass and shoot in pnr. Just like Utah. Powell hasn't shown this. He's already shown me an ability to make an entry pass, swing pass, drive and kick, pass off the drive, as well or better than cory. His ceiling is higher than cory. Wouldn't at all be surprised to see his handle reach Cory's level. He's got a great crossover. Cory doesn't turnover when he keeps it but he does when he passes off the drive. Even fvv is already better at running an offense. It wouldn't take that much with the ceiling, determination and work ethic of a guy like Powell to increase his handle to the level of Cory if he's asked and trained into that role. Like one summer imo. I'm that bullish on norm.

                      Comment


                      • To be honest, I see Powell playing a Evan Turner role. A guy who can play the 1/2 or 3, play with the ball and off-ball and cause matchup nightmares due to his reach and defensive capabilities.

                        I'm not saying Powell should carry the ball up more. What I'm saying is that we should try to use him more in the DD assist man role (Something that DD is showing is helpful.).
                        Axel wrote:
                        Now Cody can stop posting about this guy and we have a poster to blame if anything goes wrong!!
                        KeonClark wrote:
                        We won't hear back from him. He dissapears into thin air and reappears when you least expect it. Ten is an enigma. Ten is a legend. Ten for the motherfucking win.
                        KeonClark wrote:
                        I can't wait until the playoffs start.

                        Until then, opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one and they most often stink

                        Comment


                        • lewro wrote: View Post
                          Kawhi and PG are 3-6" taller than norm, not that we aren't seeing guys like Simmons and Giannis being trained to run the point.
                          Yes, the log jam was the point that I made. We will see whether Ross or cory gets traded or if demarre is hurt or declining. Norm has stepped into any role asked of him so every reason to be confident.
                          Delon will be score first in dleague if he's paired with scrubs. If he's paired with yak then I'd expect a balance between pass and shoot in pnr. Just like Utah. Powell hasn't shown this. He's already shown me an ability to make an entry pass, swing pass, drive and kick, pass off the drive, as well or better than cory. His ceiling is higher than cory. Wouldn't at all be surprised to see his handle reach Cory's level. He's got a great crossover. Cory doesn't turnover when he keeps it but he does when he passes off the drive. Even fvv is already better at running an offense. It wouldn't take that much with the ceiling, determination and work ethic of a guy like Powell to increase his handle to the level of Cory if he's asked and trained into that role. Like one summer imo. I'm that bullish on norm.
                          Cory indeed has roughly a 1:1 assist to turnover ratio on drives.

                          Of course, Norm also has a 1:1 assist to turnover ratio on drives...
                          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                          • Axel wrote: View Post
                            I doubt he can be a true point but I could see him playing an Avery Bradley type hybrid role. Off-ball on offence for the most part and versatile on defence between multiple positions. Powell's handles are no where near PG level. Good handles at SG aren't the same thing as PG handles.
                            True point is irrelevant at this point. There are only a few of those right now in rondo, Schroeder, wall, Rubio and cp3. Most of the point guards are combo guards or converted shooting guards. He could be developed in a similar mold to Westbrook and Bledsoe who basically didn't play a lick of point in college. Even Lowry isn't a "true pg" and has more of a shooting guard or combo guard play style. I'm not sure what metric is being used to measure handles here either, his are quite good and we're talking about a player with incredible work ethic. His athleticism, size and defensive prowess would already give him a major advantage at point and make him difficult to exploit on 1-2 or 1-3 switches.

                            It's something I think the team should definitely look at and probably will. Joseph isn't a Lowry successor, he doesn't have that ceiling and would be nearly the worst starting point in the league. Powell has tons of room to grow there. He doesn't need to be Steve Nash to be able to play the point effectively particularly in our system where you have a secondary playmaker in Demar initiating o and running the pick and roll.

                            Comment


                            • Lupe wrote: View Post
                              True point is irrelevant at this point. There are only a few of those right now in rondo, Schroeder, wall, Rubio and cp3. Most of the point guards are combo guards or converted shooting guards. He could be developed in a similar mold to Westbrook and Bledsoe who basically didn't play a lick of point in college. Even Lowry isn't a "true pg" and has more of a shooting guard or combo guard play style. I'm not sure what metric is being used to measure handles here either, his are quite good and we're talking about a player with incredible work ethic. His athleticism, size and defensive prowess would already give him a major advantage at point and make him difficult to exploit on 1-2 or 1-3 switches.

                              It's something I think the team should definitely look at and probably will. Joseph isn't a Lowry successor, he doesn't have that ceiling and would be nearly the worst starting point in the league. Powell has tons of room to grow there. He doesn't need to be Steve Nash to be able to play the point effectively particularly in our system where you have a secondary playmaker in Demar initiating o and running the pick and roll.
                              By true point, I mean a full time point and not just a guard who sometimes initiates (like Demar).

                              All of these guys who are being thrown around as proof were all drafted to be PGs. That is different than taking an athletic SG and making him play a different position.
                              Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                              If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                              Comment


                              • Axel wrote: View Post
                                By true point, I mean a full time point and not just a guard who sometimes initiates (like Demar).

                                All of these guys who are being thrown around as proof were all drafted to be PGs. That is different than taking an athletic SG and making him play a different position.
                                Westbrook and Bledsoe didn't play point guard in college. Both had huge questions about their ability to play there in the pros and were billed as combos. Steph curry was also looked at as a combo guard. Harden is playing pg right now and was a sg his whole life until this season. It's not different than taking an athletic "sg" and developing him in a different position, especially one where his ceiling is likely higher, in fact that's exactly what it is. Bledsoe and Westbrook in particular are guys who learned the position in the nba.

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