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Everything Norman Powell

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  • Everything Norman Powell

    Lupe wrote: View Post
    Westbrook and Bledsoe didn't play point guard in college. Both had huge questions about their ability to play there in the pros and were billed as combos. Steph curry was also looked at as a combo guard. Harden is playing pg right now and was a sg his whole life until this season. It's not different than taking an athletic "sg" and developing him in a different position, especially one where his ceiling is likely higher, in fact that's exactly what it is. Bledsoe and Westbrook in particular are guys who learned the position in the nba.
    Westbrook was drafted to be a PG because he showed the skills in college, he just happened to share a back court with a smaller PG in Collison. Bledsoe, Curry, etc were all drafted to be PGs because they had the skills. Can you provide any examples of a guy drafted as a SG and transitioning to PG as a non-rookie? Harden is the first example and is unique. He played a lot on ball at Arizona State and quite possibly would have been a PG if they didn't have Westbrook at OKC. His skills are also incredibly high, higher than Powell I'd dare say and he's always played as more of a blend.

    Powell looks to be a very good SG - defends well, shot improving, decent handles and great intensity. So why are people so set on putting him at a harder position that would turn a relative strength on the wing (handles) into a weakness at the point? Especially since we have 4 PGs on the roster already!
    Heir, Prince of Cambridge

    If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

    Comment


    • Your argument about them being drafted to be point guards isn't a good one especially given that Powell was primarily played at point guard in the d league. It's clear the team wants him to work on those skills. You say it turns his handles into a weakness but it's quite the opposite. It turns his size and athleticism into a strength rather than a weakness at the 2/3 spots. The way positions are defined nowadays are very different anyway. Derozan is kind of an outlier at sg given that most of them are 3+d players. Most point guards, including Lowry btw, are score first players with the ability to make plays and create for others primarily out of the pick and roll. These are things Powell can become very good at and would allow him to have more impact on the game as a primary ball handler rather than a catch and shoot type player on the wings. Defensively at pg he would be a nightmare. Faster and stronger than everyone else at the position save Westbrook. We've seen in the past that the way to curtail some of these athletic points defensively is to out someone long and athletic on them and Powell would allow you to do that without shifting players defensively too much position wise. On the wings he's actually not as useful. In most cases he's either going to be physically outmatched guarding a 3 or guarding a catch and shoot 2-guard which is basically a waste of such a high level defender.

      He has the potential to be a 2-way athletic beast at the point guard position. Not really sure why people don't want to entertain the idea. Obviously he needs to work on his pg skills more to do so but that's what several teams have done with high potential and hard working athletic players.

      Comment


      • Axel wrote: View Post
        Powell looks to be a very good SG - defends well, shot improving, decent handles and great intensity. So why are people so set on putting him at a harder position that would turn a relative strength on the wing (handles) into a weakness at the point? Especially since we have 4 PGs on the roster already!
        I don't think it's pressure to put him at PG, as reality that for his tenure there'll be max of 12 available minutes at SG as long as DeMar is here (and there is Ross and CoJo who also happen to play this position). If he is too small to guard bigger SF what other position remains?

        I think we all agree that Norman should be playing more than 15 MPG and the problem is to create these minutes. In DeMarre thread somebody already suggested to give Carroll JJ treatment and start him sparingly against stronger SFs while starting Norman in other matchups. This has one big downside though - DeMarre ain't JJ and as our trademark FA signing may not be happy with it, also his contract looks slightly better with new salary caps, but still runs until 2019 for $15M per year.

        Comment


        • Majesiu wrote: View Post
          I don't think it's pressure to put him at PG, as reality that for his tenure there'll be max of 12 available minutes at SG as long as DeMar is here (and there is Ross and CoJo who also happen to play this position). If he is too small to guard bigger SF what other position remains?

          I think we all agree that Norman should be playing more than 15 MPG and the problem is to create these minutes. In DeMarre thread somebody already suggested to give Carroll JJ treatment and start him sparingly against stronger SFs while starting Norman in other matchups. This has one big downside though - DeMarre ain't JJ and as our trademark FA signing may not be happy with it, also his contract looks slightly better with new salary caps, but still runs until 2019 for $15M per year.
          Another good argument. How's he going to get significant playing time at the 2 when we already have the best or second best shooting guard in the league? Not to mention Ross who is probably the best backup sg in the league this year save maybe Lou Williams.

          Comment


          • Lupe wrote: View Post
            Another good argument. How's he going to get significant playing time at the 2 when we already have the best or second best shooting guard in the league? Not to mention Ross who is probably the best backup sg in the league this year save maybe Lou Williams.
            I believe that Powell is likely be developed for the 6th man role; hence the ball handling development in the D-League while Delon is out. Carroll is on the decline and Ross could be moved - Powell will be a key contributor on the wing and they are preparing him for that opportunity.
            Heir, Prince of Cambridge

            If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

            Comment


            • Lupe wrote: View Post
              Another good argument. How's he going to get significant playing time at the 2 when we already have the best or second best shooting guard in the league? Not to mention Ross who is probably the best backup sg in the league this year save maybe Lou Williams.
              Powell's going to get "significant playing time" in this wonderful place called the future.
              "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

              Comment


              • I think people have it wrong. Powell doesn't make Ross expendable their play style and strengths aren't in similar areas. Ross is a knockdown high volume three point shooter who can play the 2 or 3 off the bench. Powell is more of an on the ball player who the team is trying to get better at attacking in pick and roll situations because this is how we primarily initiate our offence. it's actually cojo who he makes expendable and depending on how good he gets he could be a Lowry replacement down the line. Not Carroll or Ross.

                In a lot of ways he reminds me of Eric Bledsoe when he was still on the clippers except taller and more athletic and hopefully without the future injury problems that he had when he moved to Phoenix.
                Last edited by Lupe; Wed Dec 28th, 2016, 09:52 AM.

                Comment


                • Lupe wrote: View Post
                  I think people have it wrong. Powell doesn't make Ross expendable their play style and strengths aren't in similar areas. Ross is a knockdown high volume three point shooter who can play the 2 or 3 off the bench. Powell is more of an on the ball player who the team is trying to get better at attacking in pick and roll situations because this is how we primarily initiate our offence. it's actually cojo who he makes expendable and depending on how good he gets he could be a Lowry replacement down the line. Not Carroll or Ross.

                  In a lot of ways he reminds me of Eric Bledsoe when he was still on the clippers except taller and more athletic and hopefully without the future injury problems that he had when he moved to Phoenix.
                  Ross doesn't need to be moved though. Between Carroll and Ross, there will be more opportunities for Powell moving forward.
                  Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                  If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                  Comment


                  • Majesiu wrote: View Post
                    I don't think it's pressure to put him at PG, as reality that for his tenure there'll be max of 12 available minutes at SG as long as DeMar is here (and there is Ross and CoJo who also happen to play this position). If he is too small to guard bigger SF what other position remains?

                    I think we all agree that Norman should be playing more than 15 MPG and the problem is to create these minutes. In DeMarre thread somebody already suggested to give Carroll JJ treatment and start him sparingly against stronger SFs while starting Norman in other matchups. This has one big downside though - DeMarre ain't JJ and as our trademark FA signing may not be happy with it, also his contract looks slightly better with new salary caps, but still runs until 2019 for $15M per year.
                    The flaw with this logic is that Lowry will be playing big minutes for the next few years as well. Add the fact that we have 3 other PGs on the roster today and the path at SG seems easier to get minutes immediately.

                    Even if Powell were being developed to one day be a PG, it's not an overnight process. The team could look very different by then.
                    Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                    If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                    Comment


                    • Lupe wrote: View Post
                      I think people have it wrong. Powell doesn't make Ross expendable their play style and strengths aren't in similar areas. Ross is a knockdown high volume three point shooter who can play the 2 or 3 off the bench. Powell is more of an on the ball player who the team is trying to get better at attacking in pick and roll situations because this is how we primarily initiate our offence. it's actually cojo who he makes expendable and depending on how good he gets he could be a Lowry replacement down the line. Not Carroll or Ross.

                      In a lot of ways he reminds me of Eric Bledsoe when he was still on the clippers except taller and more athletic and hopefully without the future injury problems that he had when he moved to Phoenix.
                      I agree with this. Kyle, norm, Ross is a great combo in many matchups.

                      Comment


                      • lewro wrote: View Post
                        I agree with this. Kyle, norm, Ross is a great combo in many matchups.
                        Additionally the demar, cojo, Powell lineup has not done well this season or last probably because Powell is too similar to Corey and Demar and cannot play Ross' role well. Hasn't been used much for a great sample size but -17 last year and -0.6 this year.

                        I'd be interested to see norm used more in Corey's role eventually allowing Kyle to shift to sg off the bench and as a secondary playmaker with Demar in the backcourt with Ross or Carroll at the 3 in both cases. I think that is better suited to his talents than trying to emulate Ross who IMO is the best pure catch and shoot guy on the team.

                        Comment


                        • He was drafted as an athlete and defender. His shooting skills and handle/playmaking skills were equally as suspect/potential. Raps just hoped to get a player out of him, I don't think they were defining a position for him. That doesn't sound like Masai.

                          When axel said true point I thought he meant assist to turnover floor general. I don't see that. Considering now that he meant play major/most of his mins at pg, I definitely see that. I'd already rather see him in the two guard lineup than cory right now and as Kyle ages Id rather see norm takeover than delon.
                          Talent and natural ability is always going to prevail if the work ethic and desire to improve is applied. No doubt norm can do that.
                          This true point debate is like the you need a ring to be successful debate. It's hyper rigid, narrow thinking. Not interesting. You're entitled to your opinion axel but I don't see it that norm has to be a 2 and in most cases it's better that he's not a 3. He has more potential as a 1/2 imo. I could totally see him becoming Kyle and getting mentored by him. No doubt.

                          Comment


                          • Lupe wrote: View Post
                            Additionally the demar, cojo, Powell lineup has not done well this season or last probably because Powell is too similar to Corey and Demar and cannot play Ross' role well. Hasn't been used much for a great sample size but -17 last year and -0.6 this year.

                            I'd be interested to see norm used more in Corey's role eventually allowing Kyle to shift to sg off the bench and as a secondary playmaker with Demar in the backcourt with Ross or Carroll at the 3 in both cases. I think that is better suited to his talents than trying to emulate Ross who IMO is the best pure catch and shoot guy on the team.
                            Yep, they've developed norm to catch and shoot and he's shooting off screens a bit. He's done well but he doesn't project to be Ross. Hes most comfortable with the ball in his hands. He needs to work on pnr and passing out of help double. He'll get there.
                            Cory is peak value right now. I don't think we should resign him for $12m

                            Comment


                            • lewro wrote: View Post
                              He was drafted as an athlete and defender. His shooting skills and handle/playmaking skills were equally as suspect/potential. Raps just hoped to get a player out of him, I don't think they were defining a position for him. That doesn't sound like Masai.

                              When axel said true point I thought he meant assist to turnover floor general. I don't see that. Considering now that he meant play major/most of his mins at pg, I definitely see that. I'd already rather see him in the two guard lineup than cory right now and as Kyle ages Id rather see norm takeover than delon.
                              Talent and natural ability is always going to prevail if the work ethic and desire to improve is applied. No doubt norm can do that.
                              This true point debate is like the you need a ring to be successful debate. It's hyper rigid, narrow thinking. Not interesting. You're entitled to your opinion axel but I don't see it that norm has to be a 2 and in most cases it's better that he's not a 3. He has more potential as a 1/2 imo. I could totally see him becoming Kyle and getting mentored by him. No doubt.
                              No, it's being realistic. You are trying to assign depth and meaning to his D-League minutes that isn't really there for the sole purpose being that you think "it would be interesting" yet are dismissing any other possible rationale, such as Delon Wright being injured, and developing Powell's ball handling to improve his skill set to play on the wing.

                              It's rigidness on your part to refuse to accept any other possibility. Plus, half your arguments seem more to do with what Cory does or doesn't do than anything particular about Powell and his skill set.

                              It's like you've dug in your heels and are refusing to accept any other possible explanations. You've failed to produce any other examples of this being done except with guys that were drafted to be Point Guards. Lupe provided Harden, but if we are going to use MVP candidates as the baseline for our players then it's pretty hard to have any real conversation since they are all obviously so awesome and can do anything.
                              Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                              If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                              Comment


                              • Lupe wrote: View Post
                                True point is irrelevant at this point. There are only a few of those right now in rondo, Schroeder, wall, Rubio and cp3. Most of the point guards are combo guards or converted shooting guards. He could be developed in a similar mold to Westbrook and Bledsoe who basically didn't play a lick of point in college. Even Lowry isn't a "true pg" and has more of a shooting guard or combo guard play style. I'm not sure what metric is being used to measure handles here either, his are quite good and we're talking about a player with incredible work ethic. His athleticism, size and defensive prowess would already give him a major advantage at point and make him difficult to exploit on 1-2 or 1-3 switches.

                                It's something I think the team should definitely look at and probably will. Joseph isn't a Lowry successor, he doesn't have that ceiling and would be nearly the worst starting point in the league. Powell has tons of room to grow there. He doesn't need to be Steve Nash to be able to play the point effectively particularly in our system where you have a secondary playmaker in Demar initiating o and running the pick and roll.
                                wait, why doesnt cojo have that ceiling? and based on what? are people forgetting that cojo was probably one of our best players last year? and his biggest offensive weakness, 3 point shooting, has actually improved this year.

                                and how the hell does 'powell have tons of room to grow'. based on what exactly? lot of random shit just being said here for no particular reason.
                                Last edited by iblastoff; Wed Dec 28th, 2016, 11:36 AM.

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