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  • golden
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post

    Psst, don't look at bball-ref's DRTG. It's essentially valueless.

    Norm is the worst team rebounder on the team no matter his individual rebounding numbers.

    Fred is significantly better than Norm.
    ​​
    Pssst... why don't we use a better stat like RPM? You know... that advanced stat that always makes Lowry look great. Makes us appreciate all the hidden things that he does that don't show up in the boxscore. That stat is valueless too, right?

    Guess what? Norm is significantly better than FVV in both ORPM and DRPM. TD is pretty awesome, too. I'm not complaining... we have 3 very good SGs. Norm is arguably more valuable than FVV, because he doesn't crater off the bench and scores in multiple ways (transition, draw fouls, from 3, etc...)

    I'm not saying Norm is better than FVV, but there are certainly numbers that support that opinion.





    http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/position/2
    Last edited by golden; Fri Mar 6, 2020, 10:55 PM.

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  • inthepaint
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post

    Psst, don't look at bball-ref's DRTG. It's essentially valueless.

    Norm is the worst team rebounder on the team no matter his individual rebounding numbers.

    Fred is significantly better than Norm.
    ​​
    oh I see. We should just focus on the stats that support our opinion and dismiss the other as valueless, got it. I've seen you post for years, but haven't learned how to do that yet. Like, Norm has a better PER, better rebounding per 100 possessions, better 3pt%, better 2p% (significantly better eFG% as a result), better TS%, higher TRB% more points/36, gets blocked at the rim way less than Fred, but those are all worthless facts.

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  • Tmac2darak
    replied
    https://www.thestar.com/amp/sports/r...-is-today.html

    Norm credits kobe
    Last edited by Tmac2darak; Fri Mar 6, 2020, 10:37 PM.

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  • DanH
    replied
    inthepaint wrote: View Post

    Well, another way to look at it is you start (and close with) your 5 best players. Right now they don't look that far off:

    https://www.basketball-reference.com...01&idx=players

    Fred better on-ball defender and on steals, Norm better rebounder, able to switch onto bigger wing players, lengthier closing out on perimeter shooters. Drtg of both is the same at 106
    Psst, don't look at bball-ref's DRTG. It's essentially valueless.

    Norm is the worst team rebounder on the team no matter his individual rebounding numbers.

    Fred is significantly better than Norm.
    ​​

    Leave a comment:


  • inthepaint
    replied
    bertarapsfan wrote: View Post
    It would certaintly be intresting to see what FVV would look life off the bench with this group and a 8 man rotation. Even if he is the first check in for Norm. One of the big things is that Fred doesn't have the chemistry with Serge that lowry does so we would have to tether their minutes ideally.
    Well, another way to look at it is you start (and close with) your 5 best players. Right now they don't look that far off:

    https://www.basketball-reference.com...01&idx=players

    Fred better on-ball defender and on steals, Norm better rebounder, able to switch onto bigger wing players, lengthier closing out on perimeter shooters. Drtg of both is the same at 106

    Leave a comment:


  • bertarapsfan
    replied
    Truth Teller wrote: View Post
    Will you look at that... his contract is a steal now
    JV,Ross, Norm he always seems to get these November rookie deal extension right. Now we will see if he actually finish the contract in a raptors uniform. Ross and J.V both got flipped before their deals expired and while they still had value before hitting UFA.

    Leave a comment:


  • Shredder
    replied
    Truth Teller wrote: View Post
    Will you look at that... his contract is a steal now
    #trustmasai

    Leave a comment:


  • Truth Teller
    replied
    Will you look at that... his contract is a steal now

    Leave a comment:


  • bertarapsfan
    replied
    It would certaintly be intresting to see what FVV would look life off the bench with this group and a 8 man rotation. Even if he is the first check in for Norm. One of the big things is that Fred doesn't have the chemistry with Serge that lowry does so we would have to tether their minutes ideally.

    Leave a comment:


  • golden
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post

    Same goes for a lot of other starter quality players. Like, OG's value is amazing as a 5th man 3+D you can throw on the best opposing player. A lot of that value disappears off the bench. And he's gonna get paid when he hits FA. Guys get paid for their value when used best, not when misused. "Protected" is a weird way to describe a high end role player succeeding in their ideal role (and still succeeding, just to a lesser degree, outside of it).

    Also, I don't buy the Pistons as a threat to throw that much money at Fred. I'd bet it's gonna be low-to-mid 20's from them, and that the Raps can match by adding the 5th year and giving him 20-22M AAV.
    Protected, in the sense that most people take it as a fact that Fred would/should absolutely dominate in the bench point guard role; but, other than that one-hit wonder Bench Mob year (where he was "protected" by Pascal), Fred has failed miserably trying to elevate other Raptor bench players as the top dog off the bench.

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  • DanH
    replied
    007 wrote: View Post

    Yeah, the way Norm is playing right now makes him a perfect 6th man who can close games when he's hot
    Certainly an option if they want to close small and switchy (OG and Siakam at 4 and 5). Though personally I would not be closing with Norm when healthy.

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  • DanH
    replied
    golden wrote: View Post

    Fred needs to be protected by starter quality players or else his value drops significantly - that should be pretty obvious by now. Hopefully people will understand why Masai doesn't match a $27M/year offer by the Pistons in the off-season.
    Same goes for a lot of other starter quality players. Like, OG's value is amazing as a 5th man 3+D you can throw on the best opposing player. A lot of that value disappears off the bench. And he's gonna get paid when he hits FA. Guys get paid for their value when used best, not when misused. "Protected" is a weird way to describe a high end role player succeeding in their ideal role (and still succeeding, just to a lesser degree, outside of it).

    Also, I don't buy the Pistons as a threat to throw that much money at Fred. I'd bet it's gonna be low-to-mid 20's from them, and that the Raps can match by adding the 5th year and giving him 20-22M AAV.

    Leave a comment:


  • 007
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post

    Fred's defence against starting quality players and general inability to score inside (being far better as a perimeter threat) makes Norm a way better fit as the bench scorer who needs to buoy some lineups that have less of Lowry/Pascal in them.
    Yeah, the way Norm is playing right now makes him a perfect 6th man who can close games when he's hot

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  • golden
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post

    Fred's defence against starting quality players and general inability to score inside (being far better as a perimeter threat) makes Norm a way better fit as the bench scorer who needs to buoy some lineups that have less of Lowry/Pascal in them.
    Fred needs to be protected by starter quality players or else his value drops significantly - that should be pretty obvious by now. Hopefully people will understand why Masai doesn't match a $27M/year offer by the Pistons in the off-season.

    Leave a comment:


  • LJ2
    replied
    GOLDBLUM wrote: View Post
    Norm with 37 for the career high.
    In spite of any hiccups that have arisen— this guy’s been having a helluva year.

    What's the recovery time for getting punched in the dick? We need to time this perfectly with the playoffs.

    Leave a comment:

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