The Transformation of the Raptors under Ujiri's Direction

[Demographic Shift]

Does the window start with the upcoming season, or not for another few years? If it's the latter, should guys like Lowry (29) and Carroll (29) really be considered part of the core? Or are they bridge guys, who help push the team forward in the short-term, who can then be cashed-in as trade chips to help the younger core take that next step?

I think the window started when Ujiri took the job. It never closes. You stay true to your strategy and keep the type of players that fit your style of play or identity coming. They come via the draft, via free agency or via trades. Along the way you become a dominant team and win a couple but you never fall to Sacramento or 1980-90 Clipper levels.

Its kind of like trying to pin down when Duke became Duke. Just seems for the last 30 years they have been there.. but they had to start somewhere. I think they started in 1980 when Mike Krzyzewski took the job. He had a plan and he brought in players that fit that plan. He didn't and doesn't derivate from that strategy and long the way.. they became Duke... always there, always with talent and every now and again enough talent to win it all..

This current core is not good enough to win the NBA championship but its a way better core than when Ujiri arrived 3 years ago and that McHappy guy's timeline blew me away on how much its improved. Ujiri will continually improve the core via the club team approach with new talent ready to get plugged into an evolving core. Good mix of high end talent and young guys full of energy ready to make their mark.

I hate Duke by the way am a Cuse fan but Cuse isn't always there and those effers from Duke are.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

I think the window started when Ujiri took the job. It never closes. You stay true to your strategy and keep the type of players that fit your style of play or identity coming. They come via the draft, via free agency or via trades. Along the way you become a dominant team and win a couple but you never fall to Sacramento or 1980-90 Clipper levels.

Its kind of like trying to pin down when Duke became Duke. Just seems for the last 30 years they have been there.. but they had to start somewhere. I think they started in 1980 when Mike Krzyzewski took the job. He had a plan and he brought in players that fit that plan. He didn't and doesn't derivate from that strategy and long the way.. they became Duke... always there, always with talent and every now and again enough talent to win it all..

This current core is not good enough to win the NBA championship but its a way better core than when Ujiri arrived 3 years ago and that McHappy guy's timeline blew me away on how much its improved. Ujiri will continually improve the core via the club team approach with new talent ready to get plugged into an evolving core. Good mix of high end talent and young guys full of energy ready to make their mark.

I hate Duke by the way am a Cuse fan but Cuse isn't always there and those effers from Duke are.

I think you either misunderstood my point about Lowry/Carroll, or slightly contradicted yourself in that first paragraph.

My point was that these are good players that are about to hit 30, so their prime years may soon not align with the team's window for contending (for more than just a playoff appearance). They're definitely guys that help you win and can help mentor the young players. However, an important aspect of team-building to remember when it comes to sustainable winning, is maximizing the value of every asset. There inevitably comes a point when a players' contribution as a trade chip to replenish (or even improve) the roster might outweigh their contribution on the court.

Using Lowry as an example, he'll be hitting 30 soon and he's been showing signs of starting to break down physically. MU has also recently brought in young depth (Joseph & Wright) at the PG spot. Lowry could also become a free agent after the 2016/17 season, if he chooses not to use his player option. If the Raptors don't think they're going to be legit title (or even ECF) contenders over the next two seasons, then when you factor all those various items into the overall equation, there could very well be a legitimate case made that MU should look to deal Lowry by/before the 2016 offseason. His personal window of maximum on-court contribution doesn't necessarily fit with the Raptors' peak contending window, adequate replacements are conceivably already on the roster, and he will be a potentially expiring contract going into the 16-17 season... do the Raptors maximize both their ability to contend and their window of success by keeping him 1 year? 2 years? hope for 3 years? or start looking for deals this season?

I certainly don't have the answer about Lowry, or anybody else on the roster, especially since I have no idea what his market value currently is and/or what the return would/could be. Cashing in the older assets doesn't mark a change in strategy or tactics; it's just a matter of retooling/reloading in a way that allows that window of success to be extended. If that's done before the asset starts to have a diminishing return (especially if there are capable replacements available to step in), it could even result in the level of success actually improving as well.

[Demographic Shift]

I think you either misunderstood my point about Lowry/Carroll, or slightly contradicted yourself in that first paragraph.

My point was that these are good players that are about to hit 30, so their prime years may soon not align with the team's window for contending (for more than just a playoff appearance). They're definitely guys that help you win and can help mentor the young players. However, an important aspect of team-building to remember when it comes to sustainable winning, is maximizing the value of every asset. There inevitably comes a point when a players' contribution as a trade chip to replenish (or even improve) the roster might outweigh their contribution on the court.

Using Lowry as an example, he'll be hitting 30 soon and he's been showing signs of starting to break down physically. MU has also recently brought in young depth (Joseph & Wright) at the PG spot. Lowry could also become a free agent after the 2016/17 season, if he chooses not to use his player option. If the Raptors don't think they're going to be legit title (or even ECF) contenders over the next two seasons, then when you factor all those various items into the overall equation, there could very well be a legitimate case made that MU should look to deal Lowry by/before the 2016 offseason. His personal window of maximum on-court contribution doesn't necessarily fit with the Raptors' peak contending window, adequate replacements are conceivably already on the roster, and he will be a potentially expiring contract going into the 16-17 season... do the Raptors maximize both their ability to contend and their window of success by keeping him 1 year? 2 years? hope for 3 years? or start looking for deals this season?

I certainly don't have the answer about Lowry, or anybody else on the roster, especially since I have no idea what his market value currently is and/or what the return would/could be. Cashing in the older assets doesn't mark a change in strategy or tactics; it's just a matter of retooling/reloading in a way that allows that window of success to be extended. If that's done before the asset starts to have a diminishing return (especially if there are capable replacements available to step in), it could even result in the level of success actually improving as well.

I get what your saying about Lowry/Carroll.. They like every other player have a shelf life and if necessary when is the right time to "maximize shareholder value" so to speak with them. There is no algorithm or formula or book on when to trade a player. Thats the GM's stock in trade. The good ones keep the mix going and don't get caught with an old team like Billy Knight did in Brooklyn/New Jersey. Its ruthless but if the opportunity is presented to you or you present an option to another GM that you can get a return for a player that is accepted by the GM/BBall Operations/Scouting/Coaching that improves the team as a whole over what you have now you do it. The player(s) coming back in should be younger or marginally younger than the player going out. Its the same as recruiting for Duke. Every year presents itself the opportunity to get players to get better.


I don't think I am straying off point although discussing this over beers is easier and more fun than writing it out. I see Ujiri strategy to be to build a competitive team with the first 8 or 9 guys and they are the A team. The remaining roster spots are full of developmental players or your B team. The strategy is to continually look to improve both the A team and the B team each year. This happens via the draft yearly and its the GM's option if he wants to use a trade or free agency if he feels its an improvement to the current lineup. The development of one or possibly two B players ready to move up allows you to opportunity to trade an A player.

To do this he has to have a developmental team and he now has one. He has to have a very good succession plan and he has one. Just look at the 3 players at each position that he inherited and where he stands now. And of course you have to get a bit lucky along with all the planning and finally land a Tier 1 player via the draft or trade or FA . We got VC once. We had Tracy McGrady. We will get another.

[Wild-ling#1]

I think you either misunderstood my point about Lowry/Carroll ....

My point was that these are good players that are about to hit 30, so their prime years may soon not align with the team's window for contending (for more than just a playoff appearance). They're definitely guys that help you win and can help mentor the young players. However, an important aspect of team-building to remember when it comes to sustainable winning, is maximizing the value of every asset. There inevitably comes a point when a players' contribution as a trade chip to replenish (or even improve) the roster might outweigh their contribution on the court. ....

I get what your saying about Lowry/Carroll .... I see Ujiri strategy to be to build a competitive team with the first 8 or 9 guys and they are the A team. The remaining roster spots are full of developmental players or your B team. The strategy is to continually look to improve both the A team and the B team each year. ....
To do this he has to have a developmental team and he now has one. He has to have a very good succession plan and he has one. Just look at the 3 players at each position that he inherited and where he stands now. And of course you have to get a bit lucky along with all the planning and finally land a Tier 1 player. We got VC once. We had Tracy McGrady. We will get another.

I like the maxim that, generally "you have to be good to be lucky". Masai insisted on obtaining a D-league team as a condition of leaving Denver. Maybe that doesn't happen if we don't happen to have "dream big" guy at the helm. Good timing.

I think how long the "window" remains open can have to do with how much success a team has (seems you can only put yourself in the upper echelon - championships are rarely a certainty) and how much good will you create, along the way, with your veteran players. The Spurs have done as well as a team can in these ways, and are reaping the benefits. As Kyle and DeMarre and DeMar move through their careers, I think we have to hope that they can be reasonable about what they have "left in the tank", happy with what they have been able to accomplish as Raptors, and so ready to accept smaller roles and compensation when the time comes.

[mcHAPPY]

This was the Raptors line up at the end of the 2012-13 season (34-48) when Masai was brought in and BryCo was reassigned/demoted and subsequently quit:

PG: Lowry, Telfair, JL3
SG: DeRozan, Anderson, Fields
SF: Gay, Ross, Kleiza, Pietrus
PF: Amir, Acy, Bargnani*
C: Valanciunas, Gray

*Injured

Draft pick situation: none in 2013, all first rounders moving forward
Prospects: Zubcic



This was the Raptors line up at the end of the 2013-14 season (48-34):

PG: Lowry, Vasquez, Stone, Buycks
SG: DeRozan, Salmons, De Colo
SF: Ross, Fields, Novak
PF: Amir, Patterson, Hansbrough
C: Valanciunas, Hayes

Draft pick situation: all first rounders moving forward, plus lower of DEN/NYK 2016
Prospects: Zubcic



This is how 2014-15 wrapped up (49-33):

PG: Lowry, Vasquez
SG: DeRozan, Williams, Fields
SF: Ross, Johnson, Bruno
PF: Amir, Patterson, Hansbrough
C: Valanciunas, Hayes, Stiemsma, Bebe

Draft pick situation: all first rounders moving forward, plus lower of DEN/NYK 2016
Prospects: Daniels, Zubcic
Restricted free agents: Patterson, Vasquez, De Colo



Heading in to 2015-16, which may still be unfinished, Raptors have:

PG: Lowry, Joseph, Wright
SG: DeRozan, Ross, Powell
SF: Carroll, Johnson, Bruno
PF: Scola, Patterson, Bennett
C: JV, Biyombo, Bebe


Draft pick situation: all own first rounders, worse of DEN/NYK 2016, Clippers 2017 (lottery protected)
Prospects: Daniels
Restricted free agents: De Colo



Interesting to see the evolution and the types of players that Masai uses to fill out the roster versus Colangelo. Also first time in a loooong time there is no dead weight on the roster. There is not a single 'bad' contract. There are lots of tradeable pieces and assets such as picks with four in the next 2 years alone.



Looking forward ahead, 2016-17 has the following:

PG: Lowry, Joseph, Wright
SG: DeRozan, Ross, Powell
SF: Carroll, Bruno
PF: Patterson
C: JV, Biyombo, Bebe

Draft pick situation: all first rounders moving forward, plus lower of DEN/NYK 2016
Prospects: Daniels
Restricted free agents: JV, TR
Unrestricted free agents: DeRozan

Raptors have about $83M in salary and cap holds (including 2 first round picks) which will leave them with about $6M in cap space. At this point in time, unless a trade happens before trade deadline or a sign and trade occurs next summer, the Raptors are not going to be players in the much hyped free agency spending frenzy (and that might not be a bad thing).

I updated the OP to show Bennett signing.

Insane to see transformation.

Heading in to 2015-16, which may still be unfinished, Raptors have:

PG: Lowry, Joseph, Wright
SG: DeRozan, Ross, Powell
SF: Carroll, Johnson, Bruno
PF: Patterson, Scola, Bennett
C: JV, Biyombo, Bebe


There are actually 3 balanced lineups:

Starters:
PG: Lowry
SG: DeRozan
SF: Carroll
PF: Patterson/Scola?
C: JV

2nd Unit:
PG: Joseph
SG: Ross
SF: Johnson
PF: Scola/Patterson?
C: Biyombo

3rd String/DLeague/Youth:
PG: Wright
SG: Powell
SF: Bruno
PF: Bennett
C: Bebe

[McRealistic]

I think AB is going to surprise you all and out play both Patterson and Scola.

[mcHAPPY]

I think AB is going to surprise you all and out play both Patterson and Scola.

People might be surprised but hardly disappointed.

I think everyone is rooting for him.

It is all on him though.

He has to show much more than he has to make it anything more than rooting for the hometown underdog.


Btw, you still down on Masai's work? Have you got over the Vasquez extension?

[GLF]

I updated the OP to show Bennett signing.

Insane to see transformation.

Heading in to 2015-16, which may still be unfinished, Raptors have:

PG: Lowry, Joseph, Wright
SG: DeRozan, Ross, Powell
SF: Carroll, Johnson, Bruno
PF: Patterson, Scola, Bennett
C: JV, Biyombo, Bebe


There are actually 3 balanced lineups:

Starters:
PG: Lowry
SG: DeRozan
SF: Carroll
PF: Patterson/Scola?
C: JV

2nd Unit:
PG: Joseph
SG: Ross
SF: Johnson
PF: Scola/Patterson?
C: Biyombo

3rd String/DLeague/Youth:
PG: Wright
SG: Powell
SF: Bruno
PF: Bennett
C: Bebe

It's an amazing transformation to witness. Masai to me has done a phenomenal job so far.

[007]

There is nothing that can be said that hasn't been said before about the Masaiah

[Mapko]

I definitely like MU's team-building strategy that enables the team to have sustainable winning, rather than short boom/bust stretches like some other teams. What makes me curious is MU's opinion about the Raptors window for truly contending with this core, as opposed to simply being competitive in the East and hoping to get past the first (and second) round.

Does the window start with the upcoming season, or not for another few years? If it's the latter, should guys like Lowry (29) and Carroll (29) really be considered part of the core? Or are they bridge guys, who help push the team forward in the short-term, who can then be cashed-in as trade chips to help the younger core take that next step?

I do like building a good young team of players who can contribute or be considered valuable assets (no dead weight and no albatross contracts):
- Biyombo (22)
- Caboclo (19)
- DeRozan (26)
- Joseph (24)
- Nogueira (23)
- Patterson (26)
- Powell (22)
- Ross (24)
- Valanciunas (23)
- Wright (23)

--> 10 players: average age is 23.2

In an "Ideal world' , 2-3 years from now, those 2 vets (KL & DC) become veterans & from the group bellow will "emerge" 1 or 2 elite players that will lead this team. Will it be Demar, KJo or JVall or "Bargs offspring", time will show.

[Hotshot]

PG: Wright
SG: Powell
SF: Bruno
PF: Bennett
C: Bebe

Would love to see this lineup, I'm sure the last 5 minutes against the Sixers, this might be doable. Heck our 2nd unit is better then the starting lineup of the Sixers.

[SkywalkerAC]

Fuck I wish I had tickets to the upcoming preseason game in Vancouver. I'm almost more intrigued to watch the D-squad play than the SL.

[Wild-ling#1]

Fuck I wish I had tickets to the upcoming preseason game in Vancouver. I'm almost more intrigued to watch the D-squad play than the SL.

It's a very cool thing. Someone said that the DLeague is low-quality and a selfish "hot-dog" league. But with our own team, loaded with players who know they are expected to make the big club, learning the Raptors systems ... I wonder how good they might be?

Let the other guy "hot dog" it right? Our guys are on a mission. It's clearly the same mission.

[Wild-ling#1]

"Raptors 905, the NBA Development League affiliate of the Toronto Raptors, announced Wednesday it has selected five players to receive invitations to the team’s upcoming training camp. These players were selected among the 75 participants at an open tryout held September 19 at the University of Toronto-Mississauga campus. Pending League approval, these five players will be included on the team’s training camp roster in November:

Jabulant (Jabs) Newby
Age: 24 / 6-2 / SG / Gannon University (2014) / Brampton, Ont.

Walter Pitchford
Age: 23 / 6-10 / PF / University of Nebraska (2015) / Grand Rapids, MI

Keanau Post
Age: 23 / 6-11 / C / University of Missouri (2015) / Victoria, BC

Ashton Smith
Age: 26 / 6-2 / PG / Indiana University of Pennsylvania (2012) / Scarborough, Ont.

Kevin Thomas
Age: 23 / 6-8 / SF / Troy University (2015) / Ajax, Ont."

http://raptors905.dleague.nba.com/ne...ctions-092315/

[GLF]

I personally know Ashton Smith. Good for him!