4-out, 1-in lineups

[golden]

[Snooch]

IF that is a plan then

Lowry
Ross
Carrol
Ppat
JV

is the best lineup.

Close to the top wing defense lineup of

Cujo
Ross
Carrol
JJ
JV

[S.R.]

With the Raps adding some competent 3-pt shooting, this provides flexibility for some interesting 4-out / 1-in lineups, meaning four legitimate 3-pt shooters spacing the floor around one low post scoring threat.

You could do something like this: Lowry / Cojo / Carroll / PP / JV
Or go ultra small, like: Lowry / Cojo / Ross / Carroll / Scola

PG: Lowry/Cojo
SG: CoJo/Ross
SF: Carroll/Ross
PF: PP/Carroll
C: JV/Scola/PP

Actually, you could even go 5-out: like Lowry / Cojo / Ross / Carroll / PP …. if the other team has already gone small. Otherwise this lineup gets destroyed on the boards.

Thoughts?

I'm sure we'll see a lot of these types of lineups with the lack of talent at the PF spot and Casey's enthusiasm for going small.

If the Raps set up a system like this, that would be a great opportunity for Jonas to work on his passing out of the post. You'd like to see his usage and development get to the point where he draws double teams, at which point his post-ups have the same effect as drives that collapse the defense. Kick it out to the 3-pt line for an open look.

[Dwane Casey]

With the Raps adding some competent 3-pt shooting, this provides flexibility for some interesting 4-out / 1-in lineups, meaning four legitimate 3-pt shooters spacing the floor around one low post scoring threat.

You could do something like this: Lowry / Cojo / Carroll / PP / JV
Or go ultra small, like: Lowry / Cojo / Ross / Carroll / Scola

PG: Lowry/Cojo
SG: CoJo/Ross
SF: Carroll/Ross
PF: PP/Carroll
C: JV/Scola/PP

Actually, you could even go 5-out: like Lowry / Cojo / Ross / Carroll / PP …. if the other team has already gone small. Otherwise this lineup gets destroyed on the boards.

Thoughts?

Golden, this is an excellent point that you bring up, and it's something that the coaching staff has been discussing a lot this offseason. Another idea that's being discussed is a 4-out/0-in lineup. On offence, this look let's us bypass even thinking about passing the ball inside, which generally is not something that we're looking to do. It also makes it easier to get into our iso offence because there would be one less option on the floor to pass to, which is the advantage over the 5-out/0-in lineup that you mentioned.

Primarily though, we'd be looking at using this lineup for defensive purposes. It would be used in select situations, very specific end of game situations, and basically it would be the evolution of the scramble unit. Last year, we saw some great results with that scramble unit, but we also felt that we weren't seeing quite as much scrambling as we would have liked. So with this look of going 4 on 5, we'd be able to start seeing maximum scrambling from our defenders, and really have a chance to catch the other team off guard.

[S.R.]

Zach Lowe and Flip Saunders on using post-ups to generate open 3's (ties in to playing JV with four 3-pt shooters):

ZL: It sounds like you think post-ups will retain a prominent place in a league moving toward small-ball, passing, and 3s.

FS: The reason teams don’t post up is that nobody can do it anymore. Teams would like to do it. The post-up is conducive to small ball. If a guy can score down there, the defense has to trap, and you can get open 3s. And that’s what we’re all trying to get — open 3s.

ZL: I agree. The one thing that gives me pause: Teams make it really hard to throw entry passes now, with the way they can send help from all angles.

FS: It’s a lost art. Kids coming up from AAU don’t play with post-up players, so they never learn how to throw the ball into the post. One of my biggest pet peeves is when guys want to throw bounce passes into the post. No. You can’t throw a bounce pass in to a 7-foot guy in the post. Have him put his arm up, and throw it there.

Edit: forgot the link - http://grantland.com/the-triangle/qa...-mountain-dew/

[RepTdot]

if 4 out 1 in is the way we're going...its not something that's never been done before. From 07/08-10/11 SVG's Orlando Magic compiled a .677WP in that 4 out 1 in system....JV would actually have to become the key element of the offence. We are missing at least 1-2 3pt shooters to really make a 4 out 1 in system work....Dorell Wright would have to be signed to have a chance at it working.

[SkywalkerAC]

The one-in doesn't even have to be an interior scoring threat to be effective, as was the case with Hansbrough last season. Bebe and Biyombo can be that one-in.

I still like the 2-PG line:
Kyle
Cory
Carroll
Patterson
Bimombo

^Similar but superior to our bench squard of 14/15.

[raptors999]

The one-in doesn't even have to be an interior scoring threat to be effective, as was the case with Hansbrough last season. Bebe and Biyombo can be that one-in.

I still like the 2-PG line:
Kyle
Cory
Carroll
Patterson
Bimombo

^Similar but superior to our bench squard of 14/15.

Can't play 4-1 with a non-scoring C. Double or triple on the perimeter depending on how they cover the opposite corner. Guys would be getting trapped constantly.

[SkywalkerAC]

Can't play 4-1 with a non-scoring C. Double or triple on the perimeter depending on how they cover the opposite corner. Guys would be getting trapped constantly.

Yeah, no. You can't just go trap because you've got a non-scorer on the court, especially when you've got the court spread with the other 4. Biyombo can still catch and dunk.

[MACK11]

Yeah, no. You can't just go trap because you've got a non-scorer on the court, especially when you've got the court spread with the other 4. Biyombo can still catch and dunk.

He cant catch

[raptors999]

He cant catch

the dunk is iffy too

[SkywalkerAC]

[S.R.]

Yeah, no. You can't just go trap because you've got a non-scorer on the court, especially when you've got the court spread with the other 4. Biyombo can still catch and dunk.

That's exactly what you can do when there's a non-scorer on the court. The other thing you do is rotate, which is also easier when you're rotating onto a guy with no range who is not a threat outside of five feet.

The guy took 83% of his shots last year within 5 feet of the basket and shot 60% on those. After that he can't shoot - at all. Only took a few shots 5-9 feet and shot 26%. Only made 1 shot beyond 9 feet all season.

It doesn't make any sense, if we're talking about spacing an offensive system with four three point shooters and one C, to bring up Biyombo on a team that already has JV and Scola. Biyombo is here for defense and rebounding off the bench.

[OldSkoolCool]

4 out 1 in doesn't work when your shooting guard can't shoot threes

However with the lack of PF talent I would like to see the raps run a lot of 4-1 with JV, and bebe off the bench with his passing skills

[DanH]

There are two 4 out 1 in configurations that could work for spurts against bench units.

Against small bench units:

PP-DC-TR-DD-CJ

Where DeRozan is the guy "inside" be it through drives or post ups (which he is good at). Or against bigger bench units:

JV-PP-DC-TR-CJ

With JV as the guy inside obviously, either by PnR with CoJo or posting up.