Tweet
The legacy league was created to pit teams drafted by fellow RR members against each other and allow the general RR populous to vote on who would win this winner take all, single elimination game if all players were at their peak performance.
Each team drafted an 8 man roster. Each team provided a gameplan justification as to why they believe they should get your vote. Each team is allowed 1 post for "in game adjustments." The role of RR community is simple, vote for who you believe should win. Post justification if you want (encouraged) and weigh the pros and cons for all to see, but ultimately, your vote decides who will win this tournament of legends.
Match-up #1
e_wheazy's Starting Lineup:
PG: John Stockton - NBA all-time leader in assists and steals
SG: Reggie Miller - retired with most 3PM all time, career 39.5% from 3
SF: Kawhi Leonard - Finals MVP, current Defensive Player of the Year
PF: Karl Malone - 2x MVP, 11x All-NBA 1st team
C: Dwight Howard - 3 consecutive Defensive Player of the Year awards
Bn: Derrick Rose - youngest MVP in NBA history
Bn: James Worthy - Finals MVP, 3x Champion
Bn: Bob Lanier - retired with career 20PPG and 10RPG averages
Bobloblaw's Lineup:
g Walt 'Clyde' Frazier - 7x All-Defensive 1st team
g Paul George - 2x All-NBA defensive
f Kevin Durant - 4x scoring Champ, MVP
f Kevin Garnett - 9x All-Defensive 1st team
c Bill Walton - MVP, Finals MVP, 2x All-Defensive 1st team
Bench
g Chauncey Billups - Finals MVP
f Michael Cooper - '87 Defensive Player of the YEar, 5x All-Defensive 1st team
c Bill Lambeer - 2x Champion, lead NBA in rebounding in 1986
e_wheazy's Gameplan
DEFENSE:
Aside from having a 3 time Defensive Player of the Year in Dwight Howard, this team also counts on Karl Malone, Kawhi Leonard, James Worthy and Bob Lanier, who give us strong interior defense, with all three being terrific weak side shot blockers and man to man defenders, as well as exceptional rebounders. On the perimeter, we have great on ball defenders in Kawhi, Stockton and Worthy, and a very underrated defender in Reggie Miller. All those guys are very smart at reading the passing lanes, have quick hands - leading to steals and thus fast break opportunities - and can hold their own in the post against guys much bigger than themselves (see 1995 EC finals vs the Bulls for example Reggie's underrated post D on Jordan). We also have quick and versatile enough guys to go over screens, pressure the ball handler or depending on matchups, switch effectively without losing a beat.
OFFENSE:
With personnel that can block shots, cause turnovers through steals and deflections, and box out/rebound well for their positions, it makes sense to develop a fast paced, up-tempo offense. Aside from the fact that it doesn't allow what is a very solid defense to set up in the half court, "Showtime" offense plays to the strengths of guys like Malone, Worthy, Rose, Kawhi, Reggie, and Dwight, who are athletic beasts and love to run and finish in transition; coupled with Stockton/Rose/Lanier's great outlet passing abilities and the former 2 players' playmaking skills, these guys would be scary in transition. Malone and Howard rolling to the rim for lobs, Kawhi, Stockton and especially Reggie pulling up for quick open threes or driving and finishing at the rim or even Rose going coast to coast, collapsing the already out-of-place D to find open shooters, provides plenty of scoring opportunities and stretch even further and already stretched out defense.
Having big men who are great at setting picks and rolling to the rim, great playmakers in Stockton and Rose and great shooters in Kawhi and Reggie, the Horns offense would suit the strengths of this personnel. Dwight, Malone, Worthy and Lanier offer great options as rollers and Malone a great pick and pop option, with a lethal 15 footer; Kawhi and Reggie never stop running on offense, tiring their defenders and coming off screens for lethal 3 bombs or highlight reel dunks, all this gives the Stockton and Rose a myriad of options, not to mention Rose's superb speed which lets him blow by defenders and collapse the D.
Two matchups we will look to take advantage of :
6'11, 275lb uber-athletic, super quick Dwight Howard in the post and fighting for boards vs 6'11, 210lb Bill Walton
And
Smaller, quicker, constantly moving Reggie Miller vs Paul George http://www.gfycat.com/UnrulyAnguishedHornet
Bobloblaw's Gameplan
I think I have a defensive, athletic, long and tall, well shooting, very unselfish team. Frazier was 6'4 without shoes, obviously taller with them, every other starter at least 6'9, Bill Walton around 7'1-7'2.
My worst 3 defenders are Chauncey Billups, Kevin Durant and Bill Lambeer, and they all were good. Most of my players were among the league's top defenders at some point.
Walton and KG will protect the rim and smother penetration, and we have a lot of size and quickness on the perimeter (Frazier and Paul George can both guard all three perimeter positions).
Offensively, I think we are a well spaced team: we have two shooters on the wing, a big man with a lot of range in Garnett, Walton with less range but still able hit a shot outside the paint, and Frazier, one of the deadliest old school shooters.
Our best scorer is MVP Durant, but ultimately I think we are a very unselfish team with good ball movement, and our high / low post passing should be especially good as Walton and KG are among GOAT passing big men.
We are also very athletic and will be great cutting to the rim and in transition, plus Walton is one of the great transition outlet passers.
I don't have anything bad to say about my opponent's team, I think it's well built. I think my team is better defensively (I don't think Reggie can guard anyone in this matchup) and moves the ball better, but overall it's a fun and close matchup.
In Game Adjustments -
Bobloblaw's In game adjustments
Regarding these matchups, Bill Walton wasn't actually 6'11, he was closer to 7'2 (I'm not allowed to go into much detail here, but check this thread or many others on google http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=348290)
Also, 1960s and 1970s era weights are all college, I don't know what's Walton's actual NBA playing weight, he wasn't a heavy dude, but no way it's 210 (for example, Moses Malone is listed at 215, but he's probably 280+ in his prime).
There's no question that prime Dwight is much more athletic, but Walton was significantly taller, dominant defensively with his rim protection and much more skilled offensively with his post moves, passing, better shooting range; Yao used to be a tough matchup for Dwight, I think Walton could be too.
Paul George does very well defending quick, powerful point guards like prime Derrick Rose and such, he's a quick long high effort defender who can guard multiple positions, I think there's absolutely no way that Reggie is too quick for him.
The question I think is the opposite, how does Reggie guard a tall, long, skilled athletic player like him, or anyone else in my starting lineup, I feel like it's 5 on 4.
e_wheazy's in game adjustments
There's no official record of Bill Walton's height ever being 7'2- all reputable sites (bbref, ESPN, NBA's own website) - it was a worthy attempt but I'll take the official NBA records (http://www.nba.com/history/players/walton_summary.html) over speculation off of a couple of pictures (for arguments sake we'll also use that listed weight - 235lbs).
In terms of stopping KD, I feel like Kwahi can do a great job - not only does he have great defensive instincts and great BBIQ, but KD doesn't pose too many matchup problems for him (similar size, length, hands, energy levels), plus Bob's gameplan doesn't seem to feature him too prominently in ISO plays.
I think Reggie is being severely underrated offensively, here are some clips of him leaving some very talented defenders in MJ and Kobe as well as Ray Allen, in his dust:
http://www.gfycat.com/SpiritedDapperChimneyswift#
http://www.gfycat.com/SickLimitedBabirusa
http://www.gfycat.com/WeirdTemptingIcelandichorse
Don't get me wrong, Paul George is an awesome defender, who performs well against ball dominant guys -which Reggie isn't - and even if he's super quick and can run for days (which he will need to do, guarding Reggie) he hasn't yet developed the ability to run through screens, which Reggie is a master of using (especially not those set by Karl Malone and Dwight Howard):
http://www.gfycat.com/ThickEasygoingIrrawaddydolphin
http://www.gfycat.com/ScaredWavyDrever#
Reggie can absolutely light it up- he scored 8 points in 9 seconds - and even if you post him up and score two, he'll come back the next possession and nail a 3 in your face while getting fouled (all time leader in 4 point plays), but as a smart coach, if I see that Reggie is absolutely being abused on defense, I bring in Worthy, who is just as clutch and known as an excellent defender.
So RR faithful, who wins this game?
Each team drafted an 8 man roster. Each team provided a gameplan justification as to why they believe they should get your vote. Each team is allowed 1 post for "in game adjustments." The role of RR community is simple, vote for who you believe should win. Post justification if you want (encouraged) and weigh the pros and cons for all to see, but ultimately, your vote decides who will win this tournament of legends.
Match-up #1
e_wheazy's Starting Lineup:
PG: John Stockton - NBA all-time leader in assists and steals
SG: Reggie Miller - retired with most 3PM all time, career 39.5% from 3
SF: Kawhi Leonard - Finals MVP, current Defensive Player of the Year
PF: Karl Malone - 2x MVP, 11x All-NBA 1st team
C: Dwight Howard - 3 consecutive Defensive Player of the Year awards
Bn: Derrick Rose - youngest MVP in NBA history
Bn: James Worthy - Finals MVP, 3x Champion
Bn: Bob Lanier - retired with career 20PPG and 10RPG averages
Bobloblaw's Lineup:
g Walt 'Clyde' Frazier - 7x All-Defensive 1st team
g Paul George - 2x All-NBA defensive
f Kevin Durant - 4x scoring Champ, MVP
f Kevin Garnett - 9x All-Defensive 1st team
c Bill Walton - MVP, Finals MVP, 2x All-Defensive 1st team
Bench
g Chauncey Billups - Finals MVP
f Michael Cooper - '87 Defensive Player of the YEar, 5x All-Defensive 1st team
c Bill Lambeer - 2x Champion, lead NBA in rebounding in 1986
e_wheazy's Gameplan
DEFENSE:
Aside from having a 3 time Defensive Player of the Year in Dwight Howard, this team also counts on Karl Malone, Kawhi Leonard, James Worthy and Bob Lanier, who give us strong interior defense, with all three being terrific weak side shot blockers and man to man defenders, as well as exceptional rebounders. On the perimeter, we have great on ball defenders in Kawhi, Stockton and Worthy, and a very underrated defender in Reggie Miller. All those guys are very smart at reading the passing lanes, have quick hands - leading to steals and thus fast break opportunities - and can hold their own in the post against guys much bigger than themselves (see 1995 EC finals vs the Bulls for example Reggie's underrated post D on Jordan). We also have quick and versatile enough guys to go over screens, pressure the ball handler or depending on matchups, switch effectively without losing a beat.
OFFENSE:
With personnel that can block shots, cause turnovers through steals and deflections, and box out/rebound well for their positions, it makes sense to develop a fast paced, up-tempo offense. Aside from the fact that it doesn't allow what is a very solid defense to set up in the half court, "Showtime" offense plays to the strengths of guys like Malone, Worthy, Rose, Kawhi, Reggie, and Dwight, who are athletic beasts and love to run and finish in transition; coupled with Stockton/Rose/Lanier's great outlet passing abilities and the former 2 players' playmaking skills, these guys would be scary in transition. Malone and Howard rolling to the rim for lobs, Kawhi, Stockton and especially Reggie pulling up for quick open threes or driving and finishing at the rim or even Rose going coast to coast, collapsing the already out-of-place D to find open shooters, provides plenty of scoring opportunities and stretch even further and already stretched out defense.
Having big men who are great at setting picks and rolling to the rim, great playmakers in Stockton and Rose and great shooters in Kawhi and Reggie, the Horns offense would suit the strengths of this personnel. Dwight, Malone, Worthy and Lanier offer great options as rollers and Malone a great pick and pop option, with a lethal 15 footer; Kawhi and Reggie never stop running on offense, tiring their defenders and coming off screens for lethal 3 bombs or highlight reel dunks, all this gives the Stockton and Rose a myriad of options, not to mention Rose's superb speed which lets him blow by defenders and collapse the D.
Two matchups we will look to take advantage of :
6'11, 275lb uber-athletic, super quick Dwight Howard in the post and fighting for boards vs 6'11, 210lb Bill Walton
And
Smaller, quicker, constantly moving Reggie Miller vs Paul George http://www.gfycat.com/UnrulyAnguishedHornet
Bobloblaw's Gameplan
I think I have a defensive, athletic, long and tall, well shooting, very unselfish team. Frazier was 6'4 without shoes, obviously taller with them, every other starter at least 6'9, Bill Walton around 7'1-7'2.
My worst 3 defenders are Chauncey Billups, Kevin Durant and Bill Lambeer, and they all were good. Most of my players were among the league's top defenders at some point.
Walton and KG will protect the rim and smother penetration, and we have a lot of size and quickness on the perimeter (Frazier and Paul George can both guard all three perimeter positions).
Offensively, I think we are a well spaced team: we have two shooters on the wing, a big man with a lot of range in Garnett, Walton with less range but still able hit a shot outside the paint, and Frazier, one of the deadliest old school shooters.
Our best scorer is MVP Durant, but ultimately I think we are a very unselfish team with good ball movement, and our high / low post passing should be especially good as Walton and KG are among GOAT passing big men.
We are also very athletic and will be great cutting to the rim and in transition, plus Walton is one of the great transition outlet passers.
I don't have anything bad to say about my opponent's team, I think it's well built. I think my team is better defensively (I don't think Reggie can guard anyone in this matchup) and moves the ball better, but overall it's a fun and close matchup.
In Game Adjustments -
Bobloblaw's In game adjustments
6'11, 275lb uber-athletic, super quick Dwight Howard in the post and fighting for boards vs 6'11, 210lb Bill Walton
And
Smaller, quicker, constantly moving Reggie Miller vs Paul George
And
Smaller, quicker, constantly moving Reggie Miller vs Paul George
Also, 1960s and 1970s era weights are all college, I don't know what's Walton's actual NBA playing weight, he wasn't a heavy dude, but no way it's 210 (for example, Moses Malone is listed at 215, but he's probably 280+ in his prime).
There's no question that prime Dwight is much more athletic, but Walton was significantly taller, dominant defensively with his rim protection and much more skilled offensively with his post moves, passing, better shooting range; Yao used to be a tough matchup for Dwight, I think Walton could be too.
Paul George does very well defending quick, powerful point guards like prime Derrick Rose and such, he's a quick long high effort defender who can guard multiple positions, I think there's absolutely no way that Reggie is too quick for him.
The question I think is the opposite, how does Reggie guard a tall, long, skilled athletic player like him, or anyone else in my starting lineup, I feel like it's 5 on 4.
e_wheazy's in game adjustments
There's no official record of Bill Walton's height ever being 7'2- all reputable sites (bbref, ESPN, NBA's own website) - it was a worthy attempt but I'll take the official NBA records (http://www.nba.com/history/players/walton_summary.html) over speculation off of a couple of pictures (for arguments sake we'll also use that listed weight - 235lbs).
In terms of stopping KD, I feel like Kwahi can do a great job - not only does he have great defensive instincts and great BBIQ, but KD doesn't pose too many matchup problems for him (similar size, length, hands, energy levels), plus Bob's gameplan doesn't seem to feature him too prominently in ISO plays.
I think Reggie is being severely underrated offensively, here are some clips of him leaving some very talented defenders in MJ and Kobe as well as Ray Allen, in his dust:
http://www.gfycat.com/SpiritedDapperChimneyswift#
http://www.gfycat.com/SickLimitedBabirusa
http://www.gfycat.com/WeirdTemptingIcelandichorse
Don't get me wrong, Paul George is an awesome defender, who performs well against ball dominant guys -which Reggie isn't - and even if he's super quick and can run for days (which he will need to do, guarding Reggie) he hasn't yet developed the ability to run through screens, which Reggie is a master of using (especially not those set by Karl Malone and Dwight Howard):
http://www.gfycat.com/ThickEasygoingIrrawaddydolphin
http://www.gfycat.com/ScaredWavyDrever#
Reggie can absolutely light it up- he scored 8 points in 9 seconds - and even if you post him up and score two, he'll come back the next possession and nail a 3 in your face while getting fouled (all time leader in 4 point plays), but as a smart coach, if I see that Reggie is absolutely being abused on defense, I bring in Worthy, who is just as clutch and known as an excellent defender.
So RR faithful, who wins this game?
Comment