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Legacy League: Game # 4 - Joey v. Mack11 (Winner: Joey)

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  • Legacy League: Game # 4 - Joey v. Mack11 (Winner: Joey)

    The legacy league was created to pit teams drafted by fellow RR members against each other and allow the general RR populous to vote on who would win this winner take all, single elimination game if all players were at their peak performance.

    Each team drafted an 8 man roster. Each team provided a gameplan justification as to why they believe they should get your vote. Each team is allowed 1 post for "in game adjustments." The role of RR community is simple, vote for who you believe should win. Post justification if you want (encouraged) and weigh the pros and cons for all to see, but ultimately, your vote decides who will win this tournament of legends.

    Match-up #4

    Joey's Legacy Allstars

    PG Steve Nash aka Captain Canada - 18.6ppg, 11.6apg, 53%FG, 46%3P, 65%TS, 124 ORtg
    2x MVP, 8x All-Star, 7x All-NBA Selection (3x 1st Team), 5x Assist Leader, 4x 50-40-90 (Most in History), 3rd Most Assists in History

    SG Ray Allen aka Jesus - 22ppg, 5.2rpg, 4.6apg, 1.5spg, 48%FG, 43%3P, 61%TS, 22.9 PER
    2x Champion, 10x All-Star, 2x All-NBA Selection, All-Time Leader in 3-Pointers Made

    SF Ron Artest aka Metta World Peace - 18.3ppg, 5.3rpg, 2.1spg, 96 DRtg
    Defensive Player of the Year, NBA Champion, 4x All-Defensive Team Selection (2x 1st Team, 2x 2nd Team), BAMF

    PF Shawn Kemp aka The Reign Man - 18.1ppg, 10.8rpg, 2.1bpg, 1.6spg, 22.9 PER, 6.0 DWS, 96 DRtg
    6x All-Star, 3x All-NBA 2nd Team Selection, BAMF

    C Wilt Chamberlain aka The Big Dipper - 50ppg, 25rpg 31.8 PER (Highest Ever for all 3) - Averaged 24, 24 & 8 on 68%FG at 30yo
    4x MVP, 13x Allstar, 2x Champion, 9x All NBA Selection (7x 1st Team), 11x Rebounds Leader, Led NBA in Assists in 67-68 because, why not .. ah just go here, he has a whole Wiki page on his accomplishments.

    PG/SG Allen Iverson aka The Answer - 33ppg, 7.4apg, 1.9spg, 45%FG, 25.9 PER
    MVP, 11x All-Star, 7x All-NBA Selection (3x 1st Team, 3x 2nd Team), 3x Steals Leader, 4x Scoring Champion, BAMF

    SG/SF Eddie Jones aka ... EJ - 20.1ppg, 4.8rpg, 4.2apg, 2.7spg, 38%3P, 20PER, 4.4DWS
    3x All-Defensive Team Selection, 3x All-Star, 1x Steals Leader

    PF/C Willis Reed aka The Captain - 21.7ppg, 13.9rpg, 21.9 PER, 7.5DWS
    MVP, 2x Champion, 2x Finals MVP, 7x All-Star, 5x All-NBA Selection (1x 1st Team, 4x 2nd Team), All-NBA Defensive Team

    Mack11 Starting 5
    PG - Dwane Wade - 3x All-Defensive 2nd team, Finals MVP, 3x NBA Champ
    SG - Tracy McGrady - 2x scoring champ, 2x All-NBA 1st team
    SF - Carmelo Anthony - 2x All-NBA 2nd team, 4x All-NBA 3rd team
    PF - Chris Bosh - 10x All-Star, 2x NBA Champ
    C - Kareem Abdul Jabar - 6x MVP, 5x All-Defensive 1st team, All-time leading scorer

    Bench - Adrian Dantley - 2x scoring champ, 6x All-Star
    Bench - "Pistol" Pete Maravich - 2x All-NBA 1st team, '77 Scoring champ
    Bench - Demarcus Cousins - 2015 All-Star avg 24.1 PPG, 12.7 RPG, 1.8 BPG

    Joey Offensive Gameplan
    The Crux of our Offense will be lots of ball-movement, with Nash (or Iverson) tirelessly maintaining the pace and attacking on pick-and-rolls set by Shawn Kemp and Wilt Chamberlain (aka most dominant force ever), which will in turn create shots for himself, or collapse the defense and create shots for teammates like Ray in the corner, Ron on the Wing, or a Big on the Roll.

    Steve Kerr has said that Nash was the inspiration for his winning system, and is the ideal Point Guard to run an uptempo system like this (which is a hybrid between the Spurs and the Warriors), seeing as he is essentially the most efficient scorer in NBA History (see 50-40-90 club; when you look it up, its his picture), and one of the All-time great Floor Generals who has a history of making ALL of his teammates better. Keeping in mind how well Ray Allen and Ron Artest play off the ball, and knowing how well Kemp, Wilt & Reed can set off-ball screens and pass the ball (Wilt led the league in Assists), Ray & Ron would have no issue getting open, where Nash would have even less of an issue hitting either of them with the perfect pass, where they could then decide to hit the shot or swing it around for an even better shot.

    We must also acknowledge the fact that MACKs team doesn't have any real defensive presence on the wing, and the only real defensive force on his whole team is Kareem, who won't ever be leaving the post since he will be dealing with a prime-Wilt, a force of which Kareem NEVER had to face in his career; however, we DO know Kareem could barely handle old man Wilt, so it definitely doesn't bode well for MACK11.

    Defensive Gameplan
    On defense, the key to stopping to MACK is just to force his guys to be as inefficient as they all historically were - Wade is basically the most 'efficient' shooter they have on the wing, and his best season from 3 was 31% (career 29%); if he really wants to go in the paint, Wilt would be more than happy to knock him on his ass. Crowd the paint, play the lanes, and only give your guys the paths and shots that we want you to take.

    My versatility on defense will certainly be to my advantage as well, seeing as Ron Artest can guard the 1,2,3,4; Eddie Jones can guard 1,2,3; and Shawn Kemp can guard 3,4,5; and all were elite defenders who would have no issue guarding these chuckers.

    An issue I deal with with having selected Wilt, is that they didn't record blocks during his playing days, so I unfortunately can't decisively say "6x Blocks Leader", even though he easily would have been ... lets remember that the NBA had to change multiple rules (widening the lane to keep him away from the basket being one of them) so he couldn't block so many shots; a very kind gentleman at InsideHoops did the math, and with the limited data that was available, was able to determine Wilt averaged 6.3bpg throughout College (48 games), and 8.8bpg over the course of his prime, based off 112 games where Wilts blocks were recorded (some had 20+ blocks, some just 1 or 2). Even if we adjust for "inflation" or whatever, that still destroys the 3.5 Kareem registered the first NBA Season that Blocks were recorded.

    Basically, I'm more balanced on both sides of the ball, and MACK will have his hands full just trying to keep up with my guys, seeing as his main man Kareem will be more than canceled out by being bodied up by the bigger, stronger, more talented Wilt.

    Mack11 Gameplan


    Anytime Nash is out on the court its easy points for my team IMO, I have way to many offensive weapons for Joey to hide Nash anywhere. Although Joey has Wilt there's a reason Kareem is the all-time leader in scoring, aint nobody stopping the sky hook! Dwade is just to big and strong for joey's guards to contain I see him going bonkers. I know AI was very good on D but Wade is 6'4" and built like a Mack truck! Other than Kareem/Boogie and Wilt neither of us have huge bigs IMO, So I foresee a lot of smallball. I believe my team is better equipped to play that style because I can roll out a lineup of Kareem/Boogie with Melo, Wade, TMAC, Pistol Pete. Also unless Joey keeps Eddie Jones and Ron out there for 48mins, I dont see how Ray Allen or AI have a chance of stopping Tmac. Dantley was a sieve on D but he can also fill it up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    In Game Adjustments - Coming Soon!

    So RR faithful, who wins this game?
    Joey's Legends
    Mack11's Legends

    The poll is expired.

    Heir, Prince of Cambridge

    If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

  • #2
    Very good opening arguements!

    Sent from my HTC One V using Tapatalk


    • #3
      damn Joey's team. Insane spacing.
      Only one thing matters: We The Champs.


      • #4
        Oh boy Mack11 with a great adjustment of D-Wade at PG. Nash can't guard him at all and Wilt can't leave Kareem alone.


        • #5
          Leaning Joey, even though I really don't like his team that much. Mack's got no PG (which I didn't really have either) but he has no one who is a good passer. Everybody is a shoot first option (some notoriously so). I like Mack's bench a lot though. Definitely waiting for adjustments on this one.


          • #6
            Wow what a tough matchup. Really two of the most talented teams in the draft, IMO.

            Looking at Joey's gameplan, I'm tempted to write my whole post in one sentence... of about 1000 words.

            I'm leaning Team Mack, but I'll wait for further arguments from both. I'm leaning so because I think his team just has a bit more talent, and Wade and TMac look like they might be tough to guard for Joey's backcourt, and I think Wade is a nice defender to put on Nash.

            I feel Kareem could do ok defending Wilt, Kareem did lack strength against real power players, but Wilt was more of a finesse post player, not a power player like Shaq or Moses Malone.

            Also, while Wilt setting screens for Nash makes sense on paper and could indeed work with practice, but as far as I've seen, it wasn't part of Wilt's game, I don't remember seeing him set a screen, unlike for example Bill Russell who used to set a lot of them.

            But I have doubts. I'd like some more unselfish shooters on Mack's team. I think he has a lot of guys with good shooting ability for their position, but most of them will want to either score inside or take midrange jumpers. I'd love some real dedicated shooters. Also, I feel like there are too many guys who are shoot first, especially Melo, Dantley and Pistol Pete. Starting lineup is already heavy with scorers, and when bench players come in, I think the ball might not move well.

            On the other hand, I would love a bit more shooting from Joey's forwards too. Fantastic shooting backcourt, great decision to have those guys with Wilt, but I think Artest's chucking and Kemp's lack of range undercuts it a bit.

            I think Artest is overrated in general, a chucker, fantastic man defender, but he won his DPOY in handcheck era, and IMO his team / help defense wasn't good. I think for example great current defenders like Kawhi Leonard or Paul George pre injury are better defensive players for modern basketball than Ron Artest because they are on another planet as help defenders, plus more useful players offensively too.


            • #7
              i would almost put melo on the bench here. right when he touches it it isn't getting to kareem. having melo come off as sixth lets him not pass, slap people across the face and run away quickly etc. i also think, almost beat bruce lee, is jabars greatest achievement. i think that kemp/wilt clogs the middle a bit compared to bosh/jabar but vastly out muscles them


              • #8
                Hmm. Interesting matchup. I'm going to wait for the adjustments on this one.

                But I will say, with Bosh guarding Kemp, we'd be seeing this kind of thing a few times:

                "Stop eating your sushi."
                "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
                "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
                - Jack Armstrong


                • #9
                  Miekenstien wrote: View Post
                  i would almost put melo on the bench here. right when he touches it it isn't getting to kareem. having melo come off as sixth lets him not pass, slap people across the face and run away quickly etc. i also think, almost beat bruce lee, is jabars greatest achievement. i think that kemp/wilt clogs the middle a bit compared to bosh/jabar but vastly out muscles them
                  I would bench Melo too if there was some better option, but I don't like bench players that much either, Dantley and Pistol Pete are even bigger black holes. I'd like all 3 of them as 6th men on this team, since it has so many great scorers already.

                  It's kind of pick your poison. Start Melo, he will stop the ball, but at least you have a really big lineup and Ray Allen is forced to guard T-Mac, which will be tough for Ray.

                  Start Pistol, and you have a guy who can really shoot from anywhere, so that's nice, helps your spacing more than Melo, but the problem is that he WILL shoot from anywhere, plus T-Mac will now be guarded by Ron Artest.

                  Dantley is the worst option, because he clogs the paint and just as big a black hole as the other two.


                  • #10
                    awful lot of offense on both teams, they are going to run each other into the ground.

                    but Dwade at point, Melo, Mcgrade...those are 3 guys who dominated the ball on the offensive end, I would envision a whole lot of my turn your turn offense. Nash cannot guard but at least he will maintain a properly run team


                    • #11
                      JimiCliff wrote: View Post
                      Hmm. Interesting matchup. I'm going to wait for the adjustments on this one.

                      But I will say, with Bosh guarding Kemp, we'd be seeing this kind of thing a few times:

                      Oh man, a prime Shawn Kemp would get a triple technical foul for showboating after dunking on DinoBosh and likely get kicked out the game with the modern NBA rules, thus, Mack11 has the advantage.


                      • #12
                        Hard to imagine much ball movement on Mack11's team.
                        Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                        If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.


                        • #13
                          How many minutes has Wade played at PG in his career?


                          • #14
                            Axel wrote: View Post
                            Hard to imagine much ball movement on Mack11's team.
                            My turn Your turn, your turn in the first, but by the fourth quarter three guys are gonna be fighting each other for the ball at half court. Wade, Melo and Tracy.


                            • #15
                              LOL meanwhile the guy with the most points in league history is signally for the ball down low.

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