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The legacy league was created to pit teams drafted by fellow RR members against each other and allow the general RR populous to vote on who would win this winner take all, single elimination game if all players were at their peak performance.
Each team drafted an 8 man roster. Each team provided a gameplan justification as to why they believe they should get your vote. Each team is allowed 1 post for "in game adjustments." The role of RR community is simple, vote for who you believe should win. Post justification if you want (encouraged) and weigh the pros and cons for all to see, but ultimately, your vote decides who will win this tournament of legends.
Match #11 - Consolation Bracket
BobLoblaw's Lineup
g Walt 'Clyde' Frazier - 7x All-Defensive 1st team
g Paul George - 2x All-NBA defensive
f Kevin Durant - 4x scoring Champ, MVP
f Kevin Garnett - 9x All-Defensive 1st team
c Bill Walton - MVP, Finals MVP, 2x All-Defensive 1st team
Bench
g Chauncey Billups - Finals MVP
f Michael Cooper - '87 Defensive Player of the YEar, 5x All-Defensive 1st team
c Bill Lambeer - 2x Champion, lead NBA in rebounding in 1986
JimiCliff's Lineup
PG - Dennis Johnson - 1978-79 Playoffs: 20.9 ppg, 6.1 rpg., 4.1 apg., 1.6 spg., 1.5 bpg. 6 x 1st Team All-Defence, 3 x 2nd Team All -Defence, 1 x 1st Team All-NBA, 1 x 2nd Team All-NBA, 3 x NBA Champion, 1978-79 NBA Final MVP
SG - Grant Hill - 1999-00: 25.8 ppg., 6.6 rpg., 5.2 apg., 1.4 spg., 8.2 fta., 1 x 1st Team All-NBA, 4 x 2nd Team All-NBA, 2 x NCAA Champion
SF - Larry Bird - 1984-85: 28.7 ppg, 10.5 rpg., 6.6 apg., 1.6 spg., 1.2 bpg., .427 3pt%, .522 fg%. .882 ft%, 9 x 1st Team All-NBA, 3 x 2nd Team All-Defence, 3 x NBA Champion, 3 x NBA MVP, 2 x NBA Finals MVP
PF - Anthony Davis - 2014-15: 24.4 ppg, 10.2 rpg., 2.9 bpg., 1.5 spg., 30.8 PER., 1 x 1st Team All-NBA, 1 x 2nd Team All-Defence, 1 x NCAA Champion
C - Rasheed Wallace - 2001-02: 19.3 ppg, 8.2 rpg., 1.3 spg, 1.3 bpg, .360 3pt% 4 x All-Star, 2 x NBA Champion.
BN - Latrell Sprewell - 1996-97: 24.2 ppg., 4.6 rpg., 6.3 apg., 1.7 spg., .354 3pt% 4 x All-Star, 1 x 1st Team All-NBA, 1 x 2 Team All-Defence
BN - Robert Horry - 53rd all-time NBA D-Rating., .341 career 3pt%., ∞ clutch plays, 7 x NBA Champion
BN - Vlade Divac - 1994-95: 16.0 ppg, 10.4 rpg., 4.1 apg, 1.4 spg., 2.2 bpg, 41st all-time Defensive Win Shares.
BobLoblaw Gameplan
Fun matchup, in some ways our teams are similar (big backcourts, similar 3s, long athletic 4s, smart 5s); I think I win it though, because my team is better defensively, and offensively Team Jimmy has a poorly shooting backcourt, which is ok for 1980s but a major weakness in the modern NBA.
I have a defensive, athletic, long and tall, well shooting, very unselfish team -- my worst 3 defenders are Chauncey Billups, Kevin Durant and Bill Lambeer, and they all were good.
Frazier was 6'4 without shoes, obviously taller with them, every other starter at least 6'9, Bill Walton around 7'1-7'2; most of my players were among the league's top defenders at some point.
Walton and KG were elite smart and long defensive players and leaders, they will protect the rim and smother penetration, and we have a lot of size and quickness on the perimeter, so we will have a smothering team / help defense.
Frazier and Paul George can both guard all three perimeter positions, and I think Paul George is about a perfect guard to put on Grant Hill, who on the other hand wasn't a very good defender until Phoenix, just average defensively in his prime and will have trouble with George's shooting and driving; I think I win that matchup.
Bird vs. Durant, well, similar players, well rebounding well shooting big smart SFs who can pass, score, run, both played defense, Durant is better at it, but Bird is a better passer; either way, neither can be stopped.
When it comes to big men matchups, KG vs. Brow is a fun matchup, similar players in a lot of ways, and one day in the future Brow could become better than prime KG, but until that day, prime KG was a much smarter defensive player and a defensive leader, plus had point forward passing ability, something that Brow doesn't have; Bill Walton vs. Divac, I think I'd have a big all around advantage there, Divac is a poor man's Bill; if Team Jimi had Rasheed Wallace at center, then it's harder for Walton to guard him at the 3pt line, but we would get all rebounds and have much better overall rim protection.
Offensively, I think we are a well spaced team: we have Durant and George shooting on the wing, a big man with a lot of range in Garnett, Walton with less range but still able hit a shot outside the paint, and Frazier, one of the deadliest old school shooters; Michael Cooper is one of the all time great 3D role players off the bench, Billups is Mr. Big Shot for a reason, and Bill Lambeer was a smart, dirty and tough two way center with range out to the 3pt line; it's hard to top our shooting, defense and decision making.
Our top scorer is MVP Durant, but at the same time we are a very unselfish team with good ball movement, everyone can and will score, and our high / low post passing will be especially good as Walton and KG are among GOAT passing big men.
We are also very athletic and will be great cutting to the rim and in transition, plus Walton is one of the best transition outlet passers the NBA has seen.
JimiCliff Gameplan
These two teams are actually very evenly matched, bringing many similarities in size and skill.
On offence, my plan is to use my bigs' shooting ability to spread the floor, and have both Sheed and Brow near or beyond the 3 point line, which drags Bob's interior defensive forces, Garnett and Walton, outside the paint.
With no one to protect the rim, Grant Hill, DJ and Spree - all of who were excellent at slashing and driving to the basket - will have ample opportunities to score.
The majority of the offence will run through Larry Bird in the high post. Durant can't handle Bird one-on-one there, and the defence will have to send help. When they do, Bird, with his excellent court vision, will find his big men on the outside for wide open Js, or his wings and guards cutting to the hoop.
On defence, we think we can defend everyone straight-up. The most difficult assignment will be Bird checking Durant, but Bird - 3 x 2nd team All-Defence - has the length, quickness and IQ to handle Durant without needing any help.
In summation - up and down, these teams are almost mirror images of each other, but with one critical difference: my primary offensive threat will need to be double teamed, whereas Bob's will not. That gives my team the edge in this matchup.
In Game Adjustments
BobLoblaw's Adjustments
I don't think that Bird can defend Durant effectively without help or even with help; look at what happened when great scoring SFs like Bernard King and Dominique Wilkins faced Bird's Celtics in the playoffs, both kept dropping 30-50 point games, and Durant is better than those two ever were; don't underrate Durant just because he got injured in his prime, there haven't been many players as unstoppable offensively as MVP Durant; same goes for Larry Bird btw, both of them with require help, and neither of them will really be stopped anyway.
We are ok with Anthony Davis taking mildly contested 20 footers, same goes for Grant Hill and Dennis Johnson; if Team Jimi beats us with Anthony Davis' long 2s, so be it, but they won't beat us at the rim or with 3pt shots.
We won't send both our shotblockers far from the rim, I think it's not necessary, since Team Jimi has only two 3pt shooters in this starting lineup; we only need to defend Sheed and Bird at the 3pt line, and Bird will actually spend most of his time in the high post, so that just leaves Sheed behind the 3pt line most of the time; so the paint will be packed, we will have 4 very long, athletic defenders and good rim protection in and around the paint most of the time; all of them can help a bit if there's someone taking a long 2 point shot, Paul George and KG in particular were brilliant at dancing on defense -- giving some help and recovering; but ultimately we will let Team Jimi beat us with those long 2s if they can; we won't let them drive inside for layups.
If Team Jimi plans to have Sheed at the 3 all the time, I guess KG will mostly defend him, since I'd prefer my more dominant rim protector (Walton) in the paint; but I'm really fine with either KG or Walton in the paint, and if Team Jimi succeeds in drawing out Walton and leaving KG in the paint, that's ok, we still have rim protection and most of my players are inside 15 feet defensively.
On the other hand, I think we will dominate rebounds in this matchup, as prime Walton (grabbed 20-21% of available rebounds) and Garnett (20%) were much better rebounders than Rasheed (11-14%) and Anthony Davis (16%); with these rebounds, I think we'll have a lot of easy transition points; we have multiple great transition players, both initiators and finishers, a lot of shooting, passing and athleticism, we will score well in transition; add to it Durant's shooting and ability to draw fouls, Bill Walton's post game and advantage over Rasheed in the post, overall athleticism and shooting from our team, and I think that most of our points come at the rim, or from 3, or at the free throw line, while Team Jimi will take much more long 2s...or at least we'll try to make them take those.
JimiCliff's Adjustments
Bird was actually not tasked with guarding King or Wilkins (and don't underrated either of these players - each was, at their peak, as dangerous offensively as Durant), as they were lighter and quicker SG/SF types - but Durant, who, due to his length doesn't have the quick first step of a King or a Wilkins, would be a nice matchup for the wily, savvy Bird.
I'm not sure how much Pelicans you watched this year, but you should not be ok with that - Brow was an assassin from that range, either shooting the J or driving by the man coming out to contest; Team Bob would quickly realize that they cannot give him any space on the outside, meaning both Walton and Garnett will be constantly sucked away from the paint.
Although, on the surface, the lack of shooting from the guards seems a little funky, it isn't really an issue, because both Hill and DJ were incredible slashers - sag off them to double Bird, and they're cutting to rim, which will, as mentioned above, be generally unprotected.
In general, I think Bob's going to have a hard time scoring the ball - sure, Durant will get his, but past that: DJ has the ability to lock down Frazier; Paul George, although a nice player in regular circumstances, doesn't have near the offensive game to be any kind of factor at this elite level; Brow is the perfect match for KG on the perimeter; as is Sheed, maybe the most underrated post defender of his era, on Walton (who, it should be noted, is a borderline offensive liability in this matchup, as he never cracked 19ppg, and only broke 16.5 ppg twice in his career).
I'll finish by pointing out that Paul George is going to have a very hard time keeping up with Grant Hill here - George is more suited to bigger, burlier 3s, and a lithe slasher like Hill would give him fits.
So RR faithful, who wins this game?
Each team drafted an 8 man roster. Each team provided a gameplan justification as to why they believe they should get your vote. Each team is allowed 1 post for "in game adjustments." The role of RR community is simple, vote for who you believe should win. Post justification if you want (encouraged) and weigh the pros and cons for all to see, but ultimately, your vote decides who will win this tournament of legends.
Match #11 - Consolation Bracket
BobLoblaw's Lineup
g Walt 'Clyde' Frazier - 7x All-Defensive 1st team
g Paul George - 2x All-NBA defensive
f Kevin Durant - 4x scoring Champ, MVP
f Kevin Garnett - 9x All-Defensive 1st team
c Bill Walton - MVP, Finals MVP, 2x All-Defensive 1st team
Bench
g Chauncey Billups - Finals MVP
f Michael Cooper - '87 Defensive Player of the YEar, 5x All-Defensive 1st team
c Bill Lambeer - 2x Champion, lead NBA in rebounding in 1986
JimiCliff's Lineup
PG - Dennis Johnson - 1978-79 Playoffs: 20.9 ppg, 6.1 rpg., 4.1 apg., 1.6 spg., 1.5 bpg. 6 x 1st Team All-Defence, 3 x 2nd Team All -Defence, 1 x 1st Team All-NBA, 1 x 2nd Team All-NBA, 3 x NBA Champion, 1978-79 NBA Final MVP
SG - Grant Hill - 1999-00: 25.8 ppg., 6.6 rpg., 5.2 apg., 1.4 spg., 8.2 fta., 1 x 1st Team All-NBA, 4 x 2nd Team All-NBA, 2 x NCAA Champion
SF - Larry Bird - 1984-85: 28.7 ppg, 10.5 rpg., 6.6 apg., 1.6 spg., 1.2 bpg., .427 3pt%, .522 fg%. .882 ft%, 9 x 1st Team All-NBA, 3 x 2nd Team All-Defence, 3 x NBA Champion, 3 x NBA MVP, 2 x NBA Finals MVP
PF - Anthony Davis - 2014-15: 24.4 ppg, 10.2 rpg., 2.9 bpg., 1.5 spg., 30.8 PER., 1 x 1st Team All-NBA, 1 x 2nd Team All-Defence, 1 x NCAA Champion
C - Rasheed Wallace - 2001-02: 19.3 ppg, 8.2 rpg., 1.3 spg, 1.3 bpg, .360 3pt% 4 x All-Star, 2 x NBA Champion.
BN - Latrell Sprewell - 1996-97: 24.2 ppg., 4.6 rpg., 6.3 apg., 1.7 spg., .354 3pt% 4 x All-Star, 1 x 1st Team All-NBA, 1 x 2 Team All-Defence
BN - Robert Horry - 53rd all-time NBA D-Rating., .341 career 3pt%., ∞ clutch plays, 7 x NBA Champion
BN - Vlade Divac - 1994-95: 16.0 ppg, 10.4 rpg., 4.1 apg, 1.4 spg., 2.2 bpg, 41st all-time Defensive Win Shares.
BobLoblaw Gameplan
Fun matchup, in some ways our teams are similar (big backcourts, similar 3s, long athletic 4s, smart 5s); I think I win it though, because my team is better defensively, and offensively Team Jimmy has a poorly shooting backcourt, which is ok for 1980s but a major weakness in the modern NBA.
I have a defensive, athletic, long and tall, well shooting, very unselfish team -- my worst 3 defenders are Chauncey Billups, Kevin Durant and Bill Lambeer, and they all were good.
Frazier was 6'4 without shoes, obviously taller with them, every other starter at least 6'9, Bill Walton around 7'1-7'2; most of my players were among the league's top defenders at some point.
Walton and KG were elite smart and long defensive players and leaders, they will protect the rim and smother penetration, and we have a lot of size and quickness on the perimeter, so we will have a smothering team / help defense.
Frazier and Paul George can both guard all three perimeter positions, and I think Paul George is about a perfect guard to put on Grant Hill, who on the other hand wasn't a very good defender until Phoenix, just average defensively in his prime and will have trouble with George's shooting and driving; I think I win that matchup.
Bird vs. Durant, well, similar players, well rebounding well shooting big smart SFs who can pass, score, run, both played defense, Durant is better at it, but Bird is a better passer; either way, neither can be stopped.
When it comes to big men matchups, KG vs. Brow is a fun matchup, similar players in a lot of ways, and one day in the future Brow could become better than prime KG, but until that day, prime KG was a much smarter defensive player and a defensive leader, plus had point forward passing ability, something that Brow doesn't have; Bill Walton vs. Divac, I think I'd have a big all around advantage there, Divac is a poor man's Bill; if Team Jimi had Rasheed Wallace at center, then it's harder for Walton to guard him at the 3pt line, but we would get all rebounds and have much better overall rim protection.
Offensively, I think we are a well spaced team: we have Durant and George shooting on the wing, a big man with a lot of range in Garnett, Walton with less range but still able hit a shot outside the paint, and Frazier, one of the deadliest old school shooters; Michael Cooper is one of the all time great 3D role players off the bench, Billups is Mr. Big Shot for a reason, and Bill Lambeer was a smart, dirty and tough two way center with range out to the 3pt line; it's hard to top our shooting, defense and decision making.
Our top scorer is MVP Durant, but at the same time we are a very unselfish team with good ball movement, everyone can and will score, and our high / low post passing will be especially good as Walton and KG are among GOAT passing big men.
We are also very athletic and will be great cutting to the rim and in transition, plus Walton is one of the best transition outlet passers the NBA has seen.
JimiCliff Gameplan
These two teams are actually very evenly matched, bringing many similarities in size and skill.
On offence, my plan is to use my bigs' shooting ability to spread the floor, and have both Sheed and Brow near or beyond the 3 point line, which drags Bob's interior defensive forces, Garnett and Walton, outside the paint.
With no one to protect the rim, Grant Hill, DJ and Spree - all of who were excellent at slashing and driving to the basket - will have ample opportunities to score.
The majority of the offence will run through Larry Bird in the high post. Durant can't handle Bird one-on-one there, and the defence will have to send help. When they do, Bird, with his excellent court vision, will find his big men on the outside for wide open Js, or his wings and guards cutting to the hoop.
On defence, we think we can defend everyone straight-up. The most difficult assignment will be Bird checking Durant, but Bird - 3 x 2nd team All-Defence - has the length, quickness and IQ to handle Durant without needing any help.
In summation - up and down, these teams are almost mirror images of each other, but with one critical difference: my primary offensive threat will need to be double teamed, whereas Bob's will not. That gives my team the edge in this matchup.
In Game Adjustments
BobLoblaw's Adjustments
I don't think that Bird can defend Durant effectively without help or even with help; look at what happened when great scoring SFs like Bernard King and Dominique Wilkins faced Bird's Celtics in the playoffs, both kept dropping 30-50 point games, and Durant is better than those two ever were; don't underrate Durant just because he got injured in his prime, there haven't been many players as unstoppable offensively as MVP Durant; same goes for Larry Bird btw, both of them with require help, and neither of them will really be stopped anyway.
We are ok with Anthony Davis taking mildly contested 20 footers, same goes for Grant Hill and Dennis Johnson; if Team Jimi beats us with Anthony Davis' long 2s, so be it, but they won't beat us at the rim or with 3pt shots.
We won't send both our shotblockers far from the rim, I think it's not necessary, since Team Jimi has only two 3pt shooters in this starting lineup; we only need to defend Sheed and Bird at the 3pt line, and Bird will actually spend most of his time in the high post, so that just leaves Sheed behind the 3pt line most of the time; so the paint will be packed, we will have 4 very long, athletic defenders and good rim protection in and around the paint most of the time; all of them can help a bit if there's someone taking a long 2 point shot, Paul George and KG in particular were brilliant at dancing on defense -- giving some help and recovering; but ultimately we will let Team Jimi beat us with those long 2s if they can; we won't let them drive inside for layups.
If Team Jimi plans to have Sheed at the 3 all the time, I guess KG will mostly defend him, since I'd prefer my more dominant rim protector (Walton) in the paint; but I'm really fine with either KG or Walton in the paint, and if Team Jimi succeeds in drawing out Walton and leaving KG in the paint, that's ok, we still have rim protection and most of my players are inside 15 feet defensively.
On the other hand, I think we will dominate rebounds in this matchup, as prime Walton (grabbed 20-21% of available rebounds) and Garnett (20%) were much better rebounders than Rasheed (11-14%) and Anthony Davis (16%); with these rebounds, I think we'll have a lot of easy transition points; we have multiple great transition players, both initiators and finishers, a lot of shooting, passing and athleticism, we will score well in transition; add to it Durant's shooting and ability to draw fouls, Bill Walton's post game and advantage over Rasheed in the post, overall athleticism and shooting from our team, and I think that most of our points come at the rim, or from 3, or at the free throw line, while Team Jimi will take much more long 2s...or at least we'll try to make them take those.
JimiCliff's Adjustments
Bird was actually not tasked with guarding King or Wilkins (and don't underrated either of these players - each was, at their peak, as dangerous offensively as Durant), as they were lighter and quicker SG/SF types - but Durant, who, due to his length doesn't have the quick first step of a King or a Wilkins, would be a nice matchup for the wily, savvy Bird.
I'm not sure how much Pelicans you watched this year, but you should not be ok with that - Brow was an assassin from that range, either shooting the J or driving by the man coming out to contest; Team Bob would quickly realize that they cannot give him any space on the outside, meaning both Walton and Garnett will be constantly sucked away from the paint.
Although, on the surface, the lack of shooting from the guards seems a little funky, it isn't really an issue, because both Hill and DJ were incredible slashers - sag off them to double Bird, and they're cutting to rim, which will, as mentioned above, be generally unprotected.
In general, I think Bob's going to have a hard time scoring the ball - sure, Durant will get his, but past that: DJ has the ability to lock down Frazier; Paul George, although a nice player in regular circumstances, doesn't have near the offensive game to be any kind of factor at this elite level; Brow is the perfect match for KG on the perimeter; as is Sheed, maybe the most underrated post defender of his era, on Walton (who, it should be noted, is a borderline offensive liability in this matchup, as he never cracked 19ppg, and only broke 16.5 ppg twice in his career).
I'll finish by pointing out that Paul George is going to have a very hard time keeping up with Grant Hill here - George is more suited to bigger, burlier 3s, and a lithe slasher like Hill would give him fits.
So RR faithful, who wins this game?
Hey, I wasn't the first, I saw someone else doing it in round 1 and decided, what the hell, good idea!
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