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Could DeMarre Carroll at the 4 Work?

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  • Could DeMarre Carroll at the 4 Work?

    I've been thinking about this, and my initial reaction was "hell no", but I think that might've had a lot to do with my distaste for Casey's small-ball lineups in general. However I think the main reason most of us dislike Casey's small-ball lineups is because he plays 3 point/combo-guards and takes our most efficient offensive weapon (Big JV) off the floor.

    The idea of Carroll at the 4 is something the Raptors reportedly considered, as it was mentioned during the pursuit of Wesley Matthews that the plan was DD-Wes-Carroll at the 2-3-4 spots. Obviously our roster isn't suited to doing this right now because we only have 2 starting-caliber wing players, however, could Carroll actually be effective at the 4 spot.

    Now I know he hasn't really played it before but bear with me. Carroll has the same height and standing reach as Draymond Green (6'8 and 8'9). While he is listed at a lower weight, that's the same weight he was listed at coming out of college and it's safe to assume he is not ~210lbs right now. I think it's safe to say he's pushing 230. So while a guy like Green is bulkier, I don't think Carroll would be at so significant of a disadvantage strength wise.

    So in the event that we were to add another high profile wing player next offseason, whether that's a guy like Batum who was rumored to be interested or the big prize, Durant. Do you think Carroll could slide over to the 4 spot and we'd still be effective offensively and defensively?

  • #2
    Could DeMarre Carroll at the 4 Work?

    Carroll is not pushing 230.

    Check his top 5 plays of 2014-15, specifically #2, where he blocks all 185lbs of Corey brewer. While he has broader shoulders, Carroll also has the same wiry legs.



    He is not a PF.

    Why pay a wing defender, 3 and D, to bang in the post.
    Last edited by Axel; Tue Aug 25, 2015, 12:09 PM.

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    • #3
      no he could not.


      Green only works sporadically, and he is stronger than Carroll.

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      • #4
        It could work, but it can't be the go-to plan in terms of system and matchups.

        I agree with mcHappy. Carroll is just not that type of guy. He's much closer to DeMar's physical profile than a guy like Green. Would you want DeMar playing heavy minutes at the 4? I wouldn't be optimistic about using Carroll there a lot of the time.

        Honestly I still see JJ as our best small ball 4 option.

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        • #5
          For short, circumstantial stretches within a game, perhaps. Signing a premiere 3&D SF to a lucrative contract, to then play him regularly at PF, is just dumb. It completely negates his greatest strengths and advantages.

          That's like drafting a SG and playing him at SF, or playing backup PGs at SG and even SF, or playing an undersized PF at C.... oh, right... Casey you rock-pounding, stubborn old fool!

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          • #6
            white men can't jump wrote: View Post
            It could work, but it can't be the go-to plan in terms of system and matchups.

            I agree with mcHappy. Carroll is just not that type of guy. He's much closer to DeMar's physical profile than a guy like Green. Would you want DeMar playing heavy minutes at the 4? I wouldn't be optimistic about using Carroll there a lot of the time.

            Honestly I still see JJ as our best small ball 4 option.
            Carroll will play sg beside KD when the time comes.

            Lowry
            Carroll
            Durant
            Draft pick/Ppat
            JV

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            • #7
              Like others have said, the "forgotten man" JJ is a better option as a small ball 4. In addition patterson and scola are going to want/need 20 plus min a night. I want to see carroll and demar both get their 34 a night at the 1 and 2, period. There's too much internal competition on the bench to overuse carroll. Lowry will get 30 min, leaving approx 46 min at the 3 positions to be fought for between CoJo, ross, JJ, and our hungry impressive rookies. Too much depth to force a guy to be something he's not.carroll is a cog, a role player, a great 3 and D. Of course I fear like many do that casey thinks he's got his 3rd all star on his hands.
              It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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              • #8
                Yeah let's take a 6'8" Perimeter Defender, pay him 15mill a year to defend Pf's
                "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

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                • #9
                  white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                  It could work, but it can't be the go-to plan in terms of system and matchups.

                  I agree with mcHappy. Carroll is just not that type of guy. He's much closer to DeMar's physical profile than a guy like Green. Would you want DeMar playing heavy minutes at the 4? I wouldn't be optimistic about using Carroll there a lot of the time.

                  Honestly I still see JJ as our best small ball 4 option.
                  I came here to say the same. I think JJ with carroll on the wings will be the better combo.

                  If you had someone like KD to put at 3 then you could probably make it work in a system. Lots of movement on offense with 3 or 4 strong shooters surrounding JV.

                  With the personnel we have I don't think it's the best option.

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                  • #10
                    I'm sure you can get away with playing Carroll at 4, during certain stretches of the game but ideally no.

                    I don't think Carroll is capable of defending the traditional bigger PF's in the league, especially the ones that are on the elite teams. He's just not that big enough.

                    I think against the mediocre and lesser-talented teams you can put him at 4 and make it work but against the top 6-7 teams, it won't be as effective because we're giving up too much size and this puts a lot more pressure on JV's defensive capabilities.

                    Also, I don't think Casey is astute enough to use Carroll effectively at the 4. I just don't see Casey understanding the dynamics of the game and knowing when to pull Carroll out from the 4 when the strategy is not working. After losing the game, I could see Casey convincing himself and justifying that playing Carroll at 4 was the best/only move for the team during the press conference.
                    #JaysWinningLikeItz93'

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                    • #11
                      It's the modern NBA, where Paul George can play the 4, so of course it could work. Carroll's a beast for a wing player. He doesn't look much smaller than our old Junkyard Dog.
                      Last edited by SkywalkerAC; Tue Aug 25, 2015, 02:47 PM.

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                      • #12
                        SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post
                        It's the modern NBA, where Paul George can play the 4, so of course it could work. Carroll's a beast for a wing player. He doesn't look much smaller than our old Junkyard Dog.
                        against a SF playing PF moving DC makes sense. against actual PF you weaken two positions SF-PF for no gain

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                        • #13
                          Bringing in another SF and moving Carroll to the 4 permanently is a bad idea. Teams that do move a SF over to the 4 do so selectively - LBJ, PG13, PP, Draymond Green, all still play most of their minutes on the perimeter and at the 3. This is still a league with teams that start Anthony Davis, Blake Griffin, LMA, Paul Millsap, Pau Gasol, Kevin Love, etc. - even Derrick Favours, Serge Ibaka, David West, Nene, etc. at the 4. There are also a lot of good young bigs coming up in the league and and more coming into the league in the next few years. Size will always matter in the NBA. The lineup shifts are contextual, strategic adjustments, which is much more the point of the recent evolution of the game than just moving a guy from playing most of the time at one position to playing most of the time at a new position. You can shuffle guys around, play different lineups, and even play different styles depending on the opponent, the score, the time on the clock, etc. From that perspective, Carroll almost certainly see some time at the 4 this year (especially when Casey wants to play 3 guards at a time), which does not necessitate him moving to the 4 full time to make room for a new starting 3 in the lineup.
                          "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                          • #14
                            raptors999 wrote: View Post
                            against a SF playing PF moving DC makes sense. against actual PF you weaken two positions SF-PF for no gain
                            Tell that to the Nash-era Suns and countless other teams since that have been effectively rocking small-forwards at the 4.

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                            • #15
                              As an adjustment in specific situations I could live with it, though Patterson and JJ would both be better options there.

                              As a planned strategy? Disaster waiting to happen.
                              twitter.com/dhackett1565

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