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Article: Ujiri Resting Heavily On Maintaining The Status Quo

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  • SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post
    And who says he needs to have such a high usage with this team, or the team we would have after major consolidation trades?
    his playing style dictates that in order to maintain any sort of value on the basketball court that his usage needs to be that way while being surrounded by defensive players that can maximize his offensive opportunities while minimizing his deficiencies on defense.

    Comment


    • SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post
      I thought all of this started with you proposing a hypothetical of dumping DeMar and picking up Henderson on the cheap, no?

      DeMar's cap hold is relatively low, under 15 mill. This means you can dump other contracts to get under the cap if you wanted to retain him. If he was signed immediately for 20+ mill, that would make it very difficult to get far enough under the cap.
      No, I said that this team would be better off in the long term with someone like Henderson for 1 year than by having Demar at an over 20 million dollar contract for 4 or 5 years.

      For what Demar brings he can be replaced by lesser costing players and then any possible slck being picked up by the remaining teammates.

      I did not look to start a demar vs henderson debate, merely showing that demars potential contract coupled with his actual production is a dangerous combination.

      Henderson at 6 million is better for the team than Demars caphold at 15 million.

      Demars caphold alone would mean shedding cujo and ppat, or ppat and ross, or cujo and 2 or 3 youngguys.

      so I do not see any value in trying to add to demar by gutting the roster. Especially since demar is a high usage low efficiency player. It does not matter what you think will happen in the future, the smart play is to alway go with what you know.....and what we know is what I posted.
      Last edited by Snooch; Tue Sep 1, 2015, 08:46 PM.

      Comment


      • SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post
        Because he's a star-calibre player that gets along well with, and seems to be respected by, other stars of the league - has played with them in McDonald's All-American, Team USA, Allstar games, etc.
        like planet mars said, unless you are an allworld talent like Lebron or KD, you arent going to be drawing free agents to a team.

        Our team is attrative due to money, city, management, flexibility, depth and lowry and carrol before demar( speaking of the hypothetical KD)

        Comment


        • planetmars wrote: View Post
          The McDonald's all-american team doesn't have many stars on it. Here is who he played with:
          Tyrke Evans, Kemba Walker, Ed Davis, Tyler Zeler, Al-Farouq Aminu, Iman Shumpert, Brandon Jennings, Greg Monroe, Jrue Holiday

          I don't think Shumpert or Aminu has much clout and he may have just as much as Evans.

          With regards to Team USA which was a great accomplishment.. Amir just played with those guys as well this summer.

          And the all-star game was one time. Even David Lee made that team (twice). Is he a guy that people flock to play with?

          I'm just not seeing the draw personally. He's a good kid but so was Amir and he was just let go for nothing. Amir produced better than DD did as well (if you look at the stats).

          Comment


          • Snooch wrote: View Post
            like planet mars said, unless you are an allworld talent like Lebron or KD, you arent going to be drawing free agents to a team.

            Our team is attrative due to money, city, management, flexibility, depth and lowry and carrol before demar( speaking of the hypothetical KD)
            Speculation, especially questionable with Carroll playing the same position as KD.

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            • SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post
              That's beside the current point about whether we can reasonably expect DeMar to improve. That said, we really don't know how Masai is approaching this free agency, maybe he can operate like the Spurs did with LA, shedding contracts when it was clear the deal was done, or maybe it's time to forego free agency in favour of the trade market, or aim for 2017. All I know is an improved DeMar, with only his cap hold counting against the cap, is going to be more of a draw to prospective free agents than the likes of Gerald Henderson.
              Well considering that this is a thread about Masai and his strategy (and not just another DD debate), I thought it was appropriate to ask the question, so I'll ask it again.

              If you are Masai, do you:

              Option 1 - keep the rest of the team intact and sacrifice DD (the risk would be he walks while we chase KD) to be able to show up to your sit down with KD with cap space in hand?

              Option 2 - keep DD and go to the sit down with KD with a long list of trade ideas to moves players X, Y, Z to clear cap space (at the risk of gutting the team since return in those deals would be less than typical market value)?

              For me, Option 1 is light years better than Option 2.

              Option 1 makes more sense for your lineup (KD replaces DD's scoring vs a bunch of players/positions/skills).

              Option 1 makes more sense from a sales point - "we insert you here with these players and this system" is more sound than "we put you here after trading these guys and hope to get player X & Y in return with player Z as a fall back".

              If Option 1 utterly fails, then we sign a Batum/Henderson type and still have a full roster ready for next cap season target (Ibaka).
              Heir, Prince of Cambridge

              If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

              Comment


              • Wild-ling#1 wrote: View Post
                It was you who brought Gerald Henderson in to the conversation, Snooch. He has a PER of 13.29 vs. DeMar's 17.49, of course. I don't want to start a "stats war". But it's not simply a given that he'd be an adequate replacement, as you have opined.

                And sure, the finances get trickier if you want to keep DeMar and sign a star FA. But I believe it is actually possible. And you're too regular a participant here to need me to re-hash all the personal and professional reasons why DeMar might be a lure to top-tier FA's. I would only insist it's possible. No?

                And Skywalker was clearly referring to next year's team, on a fair reading of his remarks, and the defensive-minded departures and acquisitions in the off-season, when he spoke of a "more balanced team". While you were offered only "yesterday's news", in response.

                And as for anything having been made "abundantly clear, over and over", well , I think we all know that you have advanced similar opinions often enough. But that does not mean you are offering the only relevant facts. Or that we must all simply accept them as such. Would you disagree with this, too?
                I am glad that you do not want to get into a stats war, cause if oyu are going to start off immediately with Per it would not end well for you.

                And he would be an adequate replacement, as then our system would finally shift and be more of a team oriented for a season, and then henderson would be off the books and we would have max space for 2 free agents in 2017.

                You are having trouble looking past 2 words. Demar and Henderson, and a failing to grasp the bigger picture and the bigger idea.

                It has been discussed ad naseum here about the true value demar brings to the basketball court and where it actually lies in terms of available replacements. Henderson at 6 million for 1 year IS BETTER than Demar at 23 million for 4 or 5 years.

                Perhaps Demar proves his entire career statistically incorrect and comes out next season with a lower usage, higher shooting percentages and performs like a prime Jordan, hell maybe he performs like a prime Monta Ellis, but looking at the entirety of his career I would say it is more than safe to assume that he will maintain his career averages.....a high usage low efficiency scoring guard.

                In regards to Demar Luring potential targets....that is grossly overblown,....Why would Demar be a lure to potential FAs exactly again? Is it because he needs 18 shots a game? because he shoots sub 30% from 3? Because he needs a system designed to maximize his talents?

                In regards to finances, damn straight it gets trickier cause now you are dumping a minimum of 3 guys in an effort to gain capspace to sign a fa, then you are going well over the cap to resign demar, then you still need to sign more player to complete roster. No, it is far more reasonable to suggest that a true 3 and d wing, an allstar - MVP talks PG, an young and upcoming center, loads of depth and loads of flexibility is a far more attractive incentive for a free agent. no? It is possible for me to go to the moon.....

                And on the last part, no need to get all snippy, if you cannot defend your opinion on a matter and feel the need to attempt to beat your own dead horse...you have offered nothing of value in response to what you quoted of me other than a veiled attempt at finger waving. I provide statistical support for my claims, and you provide closed ended questions as an attempt to debate.

                Comment


                • Axel wrote: View Post
                  Well considering that this is a thread about Masai and his strategy (and not just another DD debate), I thought it was appropriate to ask the question, so I'll ask it again.

                  If you are Masai, do you:

                  Option 1 - keep the rest of the team intact and sacrifice DD (the risk would be he walks while we chase KD) to be able to show up to your sit down with KD with cap space in hand?

                  Option 2 - keep DD and go to the sit down with KD with a long list of trade ideas to moves players X, Y, Z to clear cap space (at the risk of gutting the team since return in those deals would be less than typical market value)?

                  For me, Option 1 is light years better than Option 2.

                  Option 1 makes more sense for your lineup (KD replaces DD's scoring vs a bunch of players/positions/skills).

                  Option 1 makes more sense from a sales point - "we insert you here with these players and this system" is more sound than "we put you here after trading these guys and hope to get player X & Y in return with player Z as a fall back".

                  If Option 1 utterly fails, then we sign a Batum/Henderson type and still have a full roster ready for next cap season target (Ibaka).

                  I know you know this but it is not even replacing his scoring, he adds to it, more efficiently, while also playing better defense, with more spacing, better rebounding, better play making.

                  If you straight up sub a healthy KD for DD on this team, my best guess is, you add anywhere from 8-15 more wins per season and you have a date with LeBron in the conference finals for a couple of years.

                  Jesus, I need to go breath in to a paper bag just thinking about this.

                  Comment


                  • SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post
                    Speculation, especially questionable with Carroll playing the same position as KD.
                    KD can do anything he wants offensively, and Demarre can easily guard sg or sf.

                    It is a very safe assumption to say the two of them will play VERY WELL together as Carroll is a 3 and d that can benefit from Durant drawing defenses, and KD can benefit from DC defending.

                    That is not speculation at all, that is pretty damn apparent. Carroll routinely guarded the more potent offensive player for the Hawks last season at either sg or sf, there is no reason to believe that he cannot do it again.

                    And KD is a legit superstar who is freakishly fast and long and can easily play against either shooting guards, small forwards or power forwards on the offensive side of the ball.

                    Comment


                    • Axel wrote: View Post
                      Well considering that this is a thread about Masai and his strategy (and not just another DD debate), I thought it was appropriate to ask the question, so I'll ask it again.

                      If you are Masai, do you:

                      Option 1 - keep the rest of the team intact and sacrifice DD (the risk would be he walks while we chase KD) to be able to show up to your sit down with KD with cap space in hand?

                      Option 2 - keep DD and go to the sit down with KD with a long list of trade ideas to moves players X, Y, Z to clear cap space (at the risk of gutting the team since return in those deals would be less than typical market value)?

                      For me, Option 1 is light years better than Option 2.

                      Option 1 makes more sense for your lineup (KD replaces DD's scoring vs a bunch of players/positions/skills).

                      Option 1 makes more sense from a sales point - "we insert you here with these players and this system" is more sound than "we put you here after trading these guys and hope to get player X & Y in return with player Z as a fall back".

                      If Option 1 utterly fails, then we sign a Batum/Henderson type and still have a full roster ready for next cap season target (Ibaka).
                      I'd (probably) take option 3 - don't scrap anyone before the offseason, try to arrange a sign and trade with OKC, continue stockpiling assets and looking for consolidating trades if that falls through, and target 2017 for free agency.

                      But didn't San Antonio effectively take option 2?

                      Comment


                      • Snooch wrote: View Post
                        KD can do anything he wants offensively, and Demarre can easily guard sg or sf.

                        It is a very safe assumption to say the two of them will play VERY WELL together as Carroll is a 3 and d that can benefit from Durant drawing defenses, and KD can benefit from DC defending.

                        That is not speculation at all, that is pretty damn apparent. Carroll routinely guarded the more potent offensive player for the Hawks last season at either sg or sf, there is no reason to believe that he cannot do it again.

                        And KD is a legit superstar who is freakishly fast and long and can easily play against either shooting guards, small forwards or power forwards on the offensive side of the ball.

                        ....or point guard!

                        He guarded Wall in the playoffs.

                        John Wall.

                        One of, if not THE, fastest PG in league.

                        Comment


                        • Axel wrote: View Post
                          Well considering that this is a thread about Masai and his strategy (and not just another DD debate), I thought it was appropriate to ask the question, so I'll ask it again.

                          If you are Masai, do you:

                          Option 1 - keep the rest of the team intact and sacrifice DD (the risk would be he walks while we chase KD) to be able to show up to your sit down with KD with cap space in hand?

                          Option 2 - keep DD and go to the sit down with KD with a long list of trade ideas to moves players X, Y, Z to clear cap space (at the risk of gutting the team since return in those deals would be less than typical market value)?

                          For me, Option 1 is light years better than Option 2.

                          Option 1 makes more sense for your lineup (KD replaces DD's scoring vs a bunch of players/positions/skills).

                          Option 1 makes more sense from a sales point - "we insert you here with these players and this system" is more sound than "we put you here after trading these guys and hope to get player X & Y in return with player Z as a fall back".

                          If Option 1 utterly fails, then we sign a Batum/Henderson type and still have a full roster ready for next cap season target (Ibaka).
                          Sorry for contributing to this thread going off tract.....

                          But I agree.

                          Option 1 is far and away the best business decision.

                          Business is about maximizing return and minimizing risk, and there are far too many risks involved with option 2. You can get capped out, you can trade away a glue piece that destroys everything you did have, you may not find buyers for those trades, you have to hope that those trades return no salary, you have to hope that you can fill out the roster with very small contracts and that everything clicks....cause all your eggs are in one basket....that is teetering on a otential NYK type of thing where you have multiple contracts that quickly become untradeable.

                          but option 1 has back out/back up options built right into it

                          Comment


                          • SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post
                            I'd (probably) take option 3 - don't scrap anyone before the offseason, try to arrange a sign and trade with OKC, continue stockpiling assets and looking for consolidating trades if that falls through, and target 2017 for free agency.

                            But didn't San Antonio effectively take option 2?

                            big difference between Manu, Timmy D, Parker, Leonard

                            and

                            Demar.......

                            Comment


                            • Snooch wrote: View Post
                              big difference between Manu, Timmy D, Parker, Leonard

                              and

                              Demar.......
                              DeMar (what, 12 years younger than Manu?), Jonas, Lowry/Carroll, et al.

                              Comment


                              • mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
                                I know you know this but it is not even replacing his scoring, he adds to it, more efficiently, while also playing better defense, with more spacing, better rebounding, better play making.

                                If you straight up sub a healthy KD for DD on this team, my best guess is, you add anywhere from 8-15 more wins per season and you have a date with LeBron in the conference finals for a couple of years.

                                Jesus, I need to go breath in to a paper bag just thinking about this.
                                Well yes. I meant more in a team skill context.

                                Carroll's primary function is perimeter defender.

                                JV is the inside man (post up and boards).

                                Lowry distribution and perimeter shooting.

                                DD role on the team is scoring. That is his skill set on the team. Very easy to replace that with KD and predict the results vs predicting option 2.
                                Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                                If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                                Comment

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