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Article: Ujiri Resting Heavily On Maintaining The Status Quo

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  • planetmars wrote: View Post
    I did the cap math..
    We can't just accept this without knowing your assumptions. What did you assume for DD? He can sign a one-year extension, at a lower than max number (and not just because he's loyal, but cause he knows KD is coming) and then we re-do the number in 2017.

    What I sense is that the balance of the argument, the location of the divide, is that one side is continually trying to insist/prove that retaining DeMar, and having any hope or positive options left, is either impossible, utterly impractical ... or ... well, clearly misguided

    And the other side is only saying it might be done ... and that we don't have to decide today. We can wait to see if Snooch's "he'll never get better" view pans out. And as the assertion by the pro-DeMar side is relatively modest, and open-ended, it's frustrating to be continually pushed on the position.

    (And it's not clear we get more for DeMar now than in a trade deadline deal. So those of us who want to have a look at the re-jigged team, and a healthy DeMar, aren't simply holding up the inevitable or progress ... like just so many sentimental fools.
    Last edited by Wild-ling#1; Tue Sep 1, 2015, 10:13 PM.

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    • SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post
      Whoa, whoa, whoa. Losing Ross and PP in favour of keeping DeMar is "gutting the roster"?
      lol, ross and Ppat, traded for straight expirings, still wouldnt give enough room, would need to add Joseph to that.

      So now we are taling Ppat, Ross and Joseph or Demar

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      • Snooch wrote: View Post
        lol, ross and Ppat, traded for straight expirings, still wouldnt give enough room, would need to add Joseph to that.

        So now we are taling Ppat, Ross and Joseph or Demar
        Demar And Ross And ...

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        • Article: Ujiri Resting Heavily On Maintaining The Status Quo

          Wild-ling#1 wrote: View Post
          We can't just accept this without knowing your assumptions. What did you assume for DD? He can sign a one-year extension, at a lower than max number (and not just because he's loyal, but cause he knows KD is coming) and then we re-do the number in 2017.

          What I sense is that the balance of the argument, the location of the divide, is that one side is continually trying to insist/prove that retaining DeMar, and having any hope or positive options left, is either impossible, utterly impractical ... or stupid.

          And the other side is only saying it might be done ... and that we don't have to decide today. We can wait to see if Snooch's "he'll never get better" view pans out. And as the assertion by the pro-DeMar side is relatively modest, and open-ended, it's frustrating to be continually pushed on the position.

          (And it's not clear we get more for DeMar now than in a trade deadline deal. So those of us who want to have a look at the re-jigged team, and a healthy DeMar, aren't simply holding up the inevitable or progress ... like a pack of sentimental fools.
          He specifically mentions keeping DD's cap hold - so no assumptions need to be made

          I presented options for both sides, and neither need to be decided today - both options allow DD to play out this year. Heck, DD starts hitting treys, maybe more options exist. But based on the information we have today and history, it all kinda boils down to those options if you want any shot at KD.

          If you don't, well I feel sorry for you cause KD is exactly the type of talent you take risks for. No one else on this roster comes close.
          Heir, Prince of Cambridge

          If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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          • I'm confused why you guys don't want to part ways with DD this bad. I assume its because you don't want to be stuck without DD or KD because I don't think those two pair well together if they were to be on the same team.

            Remember back in the day when people said we should look to trade DD because of this EXACT scenario?

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            • DogeLover1234 wrote: View Post
              I'm confused why you guys don't want to part ways with DD this bad. I assume its because you don't want to be stuck without DD or KD because I don't think those two pair well together if they were to be on the same team.

              Remember back in the day when people said we should look to trade DD because of this EXACT scenario?
              Not sure why they wouldn't pair well together, KD pairs well with just about anyone.

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              • Axel wrote: View Post
                He specifically mentions keeping DD's cap hold - so no assumptions need to be made

                I presented options for both sides, and neither need to be decided today - both options allow DD to play out this year. Heck, DD starts hitting treys, maybe more options exist. But based on the information we have today and history, it all kinda boils down to those options if you want any shot at KD.

                If you don't, well I feel sorry for you cause KD is exactly the type of talent you take risks for. No one else on this roster comes close.
                Well I'm encouraged that you are open to not wearing a blind-fold, or a paper bag, when DeMar hits the floor this fall.

                I remain unconvinced that the options presented are the only ones possible.

                But when you say "you feel sorry for me", if I don't accept your point of view, I submit that you undermine the open-mindedness you (thankfully) sought to evidence just two sentences above.

                And I just don't like the suggestion that I am to be pitied for my views.
                Last edited by Wild-ling#1; Tue Sep 1, 2015, 10:33 PM.

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                • BS10 wrote: View Post
                  How does Masai's plan back fire exactly? I'm interested in knowing.

                  I'm not sure what you're complaining about exactly either?

                  Masai has made bold moves with the Raptors. He traded away our #1 pick in Bargnani for a potential #5-10 pick and traded away Rudy Gay (our star player at the time) for depth at the bench. If you don't consider these trades as bold moves, than IDK what you mean by bold trades/moves. I think the author and you are clearly mad at not seeing a complete overhaul or gutting of the roster, that particularly includes DD, Ross, JV, and Lowry-- or at least half of them.

                  "At some point patience turns into inertia". Sounds like inertia is more from the perspective of an angry fan that doesn't agree with the moves made by the GM.

                  Again, becoming a contender is a process. Last year, GSW made marginal tweaks to their roster-- nothing really notable to their core-- and one more change to their head coach. And guess what happened? 2015 NBA champs. The year before that they were a first round exit. Will Masai's tweaks to the roster yield him a similar result? I'm not sure but there's that possibility that this team could make a large leap with the right changes. Or at least I believe so.

                  It's clear the article is way too premature in questioning Masai's tenure as trending towards inertia when so much has happened in a short amount of time in the Raptors organization. Perhaps if nothing happens within this year and the following, then a questioning of Masai's tenure could be a legitimate possibility however the timing doesn't favour the author. He should have waited another few years before he dropped the article.

                  Also, a DD extension doesn't necessarily mean a treadmill move. A DD extension could mean a saving of an asset than potentially losing it for nothing. If you haven't considered it, DD could also be traded further down the road to the right buyer than selling for lower than his value. A smart GM, to me, sees that.
                  Good point re DD extension with possible trade though wouldn't the fact you need similar contracts coming back significantly restrict possible trading partners? Though the point is still worthy of consideration. Perhaps mods will see this as a new take on the DD sufficiently so to allow further discussion on the Everything Derozan thread.

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                  • SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post
                    Not sure why they wouldn't pair well together, KD pairs well with just about anyone.
                    Without the ball Demar provides no spacing its 4v5. With the ball your using KD to space the floor for Demar

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                    • [QUOTE=SkywalkerAC;514545]
                      He's got to be getting close to 10,000 hours/QUOTE]

                      I mean, I enjoyed reading Outliers, but to assume that it's the definitive guide to improving any skill is kind of, y'know, out there.

                      DeMar has had hot streaks from 3, but he's never had sustained success of shooting more than even 35%. It's just not likely he improves as much as we might hope. I mean, if he does shoot 35% from 3 while taking like three 3 pointers a game, I don't think anyone here would be mad, is just not many here expect it.

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                      • SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post
                        Demar And Ross And ...
                        From what I'm reading, keeping DeMar's cap hold means we have to let go of CoJo, 2Pat, Ross, Scola, Bebe, JJ, and Biyombo gone to have Max cap space.

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                        • [QUOTE=Mindlessness;514667]
                          SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post
                          He's got to be getting close to 10,000 hours/QUOTE]

                          I mean, I enjoyed reading Outliers, but to assume that it's the definitive guide to improving any skill is kind of, y'know, out there.

                          DeMar has had hot streaks from 3, but he's never had sustained success of shooting more than even 35%. It's just not likely he improves as much as we might hope. I mean, if he does shoot 35% from 3 while taking like three 3 pointers a game, I don't think anyone here would be mad, is just not many here expect it.
                          Stevens is forcing Smart to take threes even though he sucks. "Fake it til you make it" - Smarts willingness to take threes forces teams to guard him. Goes back to Casey, any coach would have Demar the SG, taking threes just for the spacing and development

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                          • Snooch wrote: View Post
                            [H]e would be an adequate replacement ...

                            You are having trouble looking past 2 words. Demar and Henderson, and a failing to grasp the bigger picture and the bigger idea.

                            It has been discussed ad naseum here about the true value demar brings to the basketball court and where it actually lies in terms of available replacements. Henderson at 6 million for 1 year IS BETTER than Demar at 23 million for 4 or 5 years.

                            Perhaps Demar proves his entire career statistically incorrect and comes out next season with a lower usage, higher shooting percentages and performs like a prime Jordan, hell maybe he performs like a prime Monta Ellis, but looking at the entirety of his career I would say it is more than safe to assume that he will maintain his career averages.....a high usage low efficiency scoring guard.

                            In regards to Demar Luring potential targets....that is grossly overblown .... ....

                            In regards to finances, damn straight it gets trickier .... No, it is far more reasonable to suggest that a true 3 and d wing, an allstar - MVP talks PG, an young and upcoming center, loads of depth and loads of flexibility is a far more attractive incentive for a free agent. no? It is possible for me to go to the moon.....

                            And on the last part, no need to get all snippy, if you cannot defend your opinion on a matter and feel the need to attempt to beat your own dead horse...you have offered nothing of value. ....
                            I respectfully submit, in the formal sense, that I have not "failed to grasp" anything.

                            I have no trouble admitting that I may be wrong. It is an assumption I build into my posts. Routinely, if not quite unfailingly.

                            I submit, in writing, obviously, that you have utterly "failed to grasp" - on this and occasion and others, let's say - that opinions framed as absolutes leave no discursive space for other opinions ... and are, as such, aggressive and disrespectful.

                            So. I have promised the moderators (who are now - surprise! - moderating the DeMar thread again, let's face it) that I will exercise restraint, when it comes to your views.

                            So. In case you missed it ... there it is, Snooch.

                            No name-calling. Factual. And, if it errs, in any way - using only your own language.

                            Last edited by Wild-ling#1; Tue Sep 1, 2015, 11:59 PM.

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                            • [QUOTE=raptors999;514669]
                              Mindlessness wrote: View Post
                              Stevens is forcing Smart to take threes even though he sucks. "Fake it til you make it" - Smarts willingness to take threes forces teams to guard him. Goes back to Casey, any coach would have Demar the SG, taking threes just for the spacing and development
                              Yeah, I agree, DeMar should've been taking a lot more 3s in game, specifically off-ball 3s, but it is probably too late for that now. I say probably because there's always the chance he improves like Jose did, or Kidd, or Bowen, but it's an outside chance.

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                              • [QUOTE=Mindlessness;514672]
                                raptors999 wrote: View Post

                                Yeah, I agree, DeMar should've been taking a lot more 3s in game, specifically off-ball 3s, but it is probably too late for that now. I say probably because there's always the chance he improves like Jose did, or Kidd, or Bowen, but it's an outside chance.
                                This is again a system issue. Even if Demar shoots 25% and even poor shooter get close to 30%, you can't let players take shots where they are "comfortable". As a coach Demar needs to take x number of threes and y number off-ball - catch and shoot. Just like as a team they need to go inside znumber of times per quarter

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