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Article: Ujiri Resting Heavily On Maintaining The Status Quo

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  • Axel wrote: View Post
    So if we were to make the moves necessary to sign KD and resign DD, we would have no cap space to sign anyone of note to start at PF for a few years (unless we move Lowry which creates another hole to fill).

    Correct?
    No, that was for only we we stayed as is and signed Demar Only to a deal starting at 20 million.

    If we made deals of players (Ppat, Joseph), signed KD starting at 29 million and DD starting at 18 million, in 2017 we would have 3.75 million under the cap and a roster consisting of

    KL/Wright
    DD/Powell
    KD/Bruno
    DC/
    JV/

    2 2016 first rounders
    1 2017 first rounder

    Bye Bye Biyombo
    Last edited by Snooch; Thu Sep 3, 2015, 01:30 PM.

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    • Snooch wrote: View Post
      No, that was for only we we stayed as is and signed Demar Only to a deal starting at 20 million.

      If we made deals of players (Ppat, Joseph), signed KD starting at 29 million and DD starting at 18 million, in 2017 we would have 3.75 million under the cap and a roster consisting of

      KL/Wright
      DD/Powell
      KD/Bruno
      DC/
      JV/Biyombo

      2 2016 first rounders
      1 2017 first rounder
      I thought Biyombo had to go to as well?
      Heir, Prince of Cambridge

      If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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      • Axel wrote: View Post
        I thought Biyombo had to go to as well?
        Yup, my bad, too many scenarios trying to keep straign, Biyombo would be expired by then and would be there at all.

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        • Snooch wrote: View Post
          Yup, my bad, too many scenarios trying to keep straign, Biyombo would be expired by then and would be there at all.
          Right, fully understandable.

          So JV is the only "big" on the roster. Better hope for a great draft pick.
          Heir, Prince of Cambridge

          If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

          Comment


          • Well, it seems Snooch is using a $20M figure for DeMar ... which isn't set in stone.

            I think we should factor in - potentially - that, if KD really wants to come and play with DD, then he'll understand that he may need to leave a few $Mill on the table (and DD too), until 2017, when the cap goes up again.

            And we've got picks and prospects we're working with too. But if we're actually going to have a discussion - and why not? - about having KD, DD, JV, DC and KL, it really does become important to know if their is a scenario where we can keep Bruno and a couple of prospects, plus have a little left over to sign a couple of "guys".

            I think the Board would give Masai luxury tax $ to make this happen, if it will help. They just spent what - $50M? - to get a coach for the Leafs. For cryin' out loud: Demar and Durant??

            Last edited by Wild-ling#1; Thu Sep 3, 2015, 01:38 PM.

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            • Wild-ling#1 wrote: View Post
              Well, it seems Snooch is using a $20M figure for DeMar ... which isn't set in stone.

              I think we should factor in - potentially - that, if KD really wants to come and play with DD, then he'll understand that he may need to leave a few $Mill on the table (and DD too), until 2017, when the cap goes up again.

              And we've got picks and prospects we're working with too. But if we're actually going to have a discussion - and why not? - about having KD, DD, JV, DC and KL, it really does become important to know if their is a scenario where we can keep Bruno and a couple of prospects, plus have a little left over to sign a couple of "guys".

              I think the Board would give Masai luxury tax $ to make this happen, if it will help. They just spent what - $50M? - to get a coach for the Leafs. For cryin' out loud: Demar and Durant??


              The board can give as much luxury tax money as they want.

              The NBA is not going to let them pay it.

              And you still haven't even started to address the holes.

              Comment


              • Wild-ling#1 wrote: View Post
                Well, it seems Snooch is using a $20M figure for DeMar ... which isn't set in stone.

                I think we should factor in - potentially - that, if KD really wants to come and play with DD, then he'll understand that he may need to leave a few $Mill on the table (and DD too), until 2017, when the cap goes up again.

                And we've got picks and prospects we're working with too. But if we're actually going to have a discussion - and why not? - about having KD, DD, JV, DC and KL, it really does become important to know if their is a scenario where we can keep Bruno and a couple of prospects, plus have a little left over to sign a couple of "guys".

                I think the Board would give Masai luxury tax $ to make this happen, if it will help.
                They just spent what - $50M? - to get a coach for the Leafs. For cryin' out loud: Demar and Durant??

                Bold 1 - again, you are linking KD to DD for no real reason except your own preference. But consider that all of us know that landing KD is still only a small chance, do you really think you can sign him over Washington/OKC/Houston/GSW/etc by offering anything less than the max? In this scenario, the cost cut comes entirely from DD.

                Bold 2 - Not just guys - but starting PF and back-up PF & C - essentially the entire roster is a Guard except JV.

                Bold 3 - This is where you lose me.

                Going into the luxury tax is accomplished by re-signing your own guys using Bird Rights or via incremental bumps using the trade %s. Not an option since we have to renounce and trade away players to make it all work under the cap. Luxury tax doesn't allow you to acquire players as much as it is for retaining players. So while it can help us keep DD, it cannot really help us fill the remaining roster holes.
                Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                • Axel wrote: View Post
                  Right, fully understandable.

                  So JV is the only "big" on the roster. Better hope for a great draft pick.
                  the team is severely gutted in this scenario.

                  On the flip side, if Demar is let go and assuming we drop the additional 3 million somewhere and KD is signed starting at 29 million, we would have 15 ish million.

                  Comment


                  • So we can't sign DeMar into the luxury tax?

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                    • Wild-ling#1 wrote: View Post
                      So we can't sign DeMar into the luxury tax?
                      Yes, but you can't use it to fill the starting PF, back-up PF, back-up C or any other position you want to address.
                      Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                      If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                      Comment


                      • Axel wrote: View Post
                        Bold 1 - again, you are linking KD to DD for no real reason except your own preference. But consider that all of us know that landing KD is still only a small chance, do you really think you can sign him over Washington/OKC/Houston/GSW/etc by offering anything less than the max? In this scenario, the cost cut comes entirely from DD.

                        Bold 2 - Not just guys - but starting PF and back-up PF & C - essentially the entire roster is a Guard except JV.

                        Bold 3 - This is where you lose me.

                        Going into the luxury tax is accomplished by re-signing your own guys using Bird Rights or via incremental bumps using the trade %s. Not an option since we have to renounce and trade away players to make it all work under the cap. Luxury tax doesn't allow you to acquire players as much as it is for retaining players. So while it can help us keep DD, it cannot really help us fill the remaining roster holes.
                        So why won't luxury tax $ help us keep Bebe and Bruno?

                        Comment


                        • And could Bismack walk ... and then re-sign? And we're operating under the assumption that KD might want DeMar here. They seem to like each other. Hadn't you heard?

                          He ain't comin' cause I want him ... I know that much.

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                          • Wild-ling#1 wrote: View Post
                            So why won't luxury tax $ help us keep Bebe and Bruno?
                            Pretty sure they are the filler included in either "Trade Lowry & Filler" or "Trade Patterson, Joseph & Filler"
                            Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                            If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                            • Wild-ling#1 wrote: View Post
                              And could Bismack walk ... and then re-sign?
                              We won't own his bird rights, so he's the same as any other free agent.
                              Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                              If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                              Comment


                              • Reposting these numbers by planetmars

                                planetmars wrote: View Post
                                Anything is possible.. but DD's cap hold is $15,075,000. To have enough to sign KD and keep DD, the Raptors would have to let go of 2Pat, CoJo, Wright or Bebe (without getting any salary back) and another asset (say Toronto's 2016 first) with JJ, Scola and TR renounced/moved and hoping Biyombo drops his player option

                                OR

                                Trade Carroll (without getting any salary back) and another asset (like Bebe or Wright - Toronto's draft pick would not be enough) with JJ, Scola and TR renounced/moved and also hoping Biyombo drops his player option.

                                OR

                                Trade Lowry (without getting any salary back) and two assets (like Bebe and Wright) with JJ, Scola and TR renounced/moved and also hoping Biyombo drops his player option.


                                The first package would make a team dealing a superstar blush. The second would mean Masai believes that DD is more valuable than Carroll/Bebe or Carroll/Wright. I don't believe the third option would exist.. Lowry is more valuable than DD.

                                Will be interesting to see what Masai does in the 2016 draft.. that's when we'll probably get an idea as to what direction he's heading.
                                planetmars wrote: View Post
                                I did the cap math.. Ross would be gone with or without DD. But from a monetary point of view the Raptors would need to renounce DD and also renounce Scola, JJ, Ross and trade Biyombo (if he picks up his option).

                                If you prefer to keep DD's cap hold and move the bench then that's CoJo, 2Pat, Bebe with Scola, JJ, Ross and Biyombo.

                                Or if you prefer to move Lowry then that's Lowry, Bebe with Scola, JJ, Ross and Biyombo.

                                The last option would be Carroll with Wright (or Bebe or any of our picks) with Scola, JJ, Ross and Biyombo.

                                And if you trade Carroll/Bebe or Lowry/Bebe or CoJo/2Pat/Bebe then they can't bring back any salary (Raptor's have Bebe's team option so doesn't need to be traded).


                                In the CoJo/2Pat case you lose a starting PF and since Scola and Biyombo are gone backup PF's as well. That's a tough thing to replace if you were a GM.

                                You can in theory replace Lowry with CoJo if Lowry is moved but CoJo has to come out guns a blazing.

                                And Carroll is probably a better fit next to KD than DD would be.
                                Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                                If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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