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Article: Ujiri Resting Heavily On Maintaining The Status Quo

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  • Well, thanks for that. It's not easy, obviously, to keep Demar and obtain KD. But I think you have acknowledge it seems you might get close to what each might accept, initially .... and without the cap-ologist's particular bag of tricks.

    I can't go beyond that, myself.

    But I am curious about the JV option. I don't imagine Masai actually promised JV anything beyond this year. Anything more than that he would try to "keep the band together" while bringing in someone special.

    But what I'm saying is I don't think JV could complain if he doesn't finally take his "step" and is moved. Whichmeans I think that DeMar and JV are in basically the same situation. They both have considerable support in the fan-base. They're both good guys, with talent. And yet many blame Demar exclusively for his shortcomings, while blaming Casey for JV'S (but not JV ... or Jack Armstrong ... or a number of other NBA writers ... who agree he has to be better defensively to help the team in crunch-time).

    I'm no sure we couldn't swing some "fancy stuff", though, even if other teams did act as if they had us over a barrel. You see, I've never fully bought into the notion that there's "honour among thieves" .

    Comment


    • Wild-ling#1 wrote: View Post
      Well, thanks for that. It's not easy, obviously, to keep Demar and obtain KD. But I think you have acknowledge it seems you might get close to what each might accept, initially .... and without the cap-ologist's particular bag of tricks.

      I can't go beyond that, myself.

      But I am curious about the JV option. I don't imagine Masai actually promised JV anything beyond this year. Anything more than that he would try to "keep the band together" while bringing in someone special.

      But what I'm saying is I don't think JV could complain if he doesn't finally take his "step" and is moved. Whichmeans I think that DeMar and JV are in basically the same situation. They both have considerable support in the fan-base. They're both good guys, with talent. And yet many blame Demar exclusively for his shortcomings, while blaming Casey for JV'S (but not JV ... or Jack Armstrong ... or a number of other NBA writers ... who agree he has to be better defensively to help the team in crunch-time).

      I'm no sure we couldn't swing some "fancy stuff", though, even if other teams did act as if they had us over a barrel. You see, I've never fully bought into the notion that there's "honour among thieves" .
      Except JV is much harder to replace than DD. That will spark some debate but it is the truth, skilled 7' scorers cost more on the open market than high volume scoring wings.

      Plus JV offers a lot of things which KD can't do. Same can't be said for DD.
      Heir, Prince of Cambridge

      If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

      Comment


      • Wild-ling#1 wrote: View Post
        Well, thanks for that. It's not easy, obviously, to keep Demar and obtain KD. But I think you have acknowledge it seems you might get close to what each might accept, initially .... and without the cap-ologist's particular bag of tricks.

        I can't go beyond that, myself.

        But I am curious about the JV option. I don't imagine Masai actually promised JV anything beyond this year. Anything more than that he would try to "keep the band together" while bringing in someone special.

        But what I'm saying is I don't think JV could complain if he doesn't finally take his "step" and is moved. Whichmeans I think that DeMar and JV are in basically the same situation. They both have considerable support in the fan-base. They're both good guys, with talent. And yet many blame Demar exclusively for his shortcomings, while blaming Casey for JV'S (but not JV ... or Jack Armstrong ... or a number of other NBA writers ... who agree he has to be better defensively to help the team in crunch-time).

        I'm no sure we couldn't swing some "fancy stuff", though, even if other teams did act as if they had us over a barrel. You see, I've never fully bought into the notion that there's "honour among thieves" .
        No, I dont think people give JV a pass at all, most criticize his defense, but also aknowledge that part is the system.

        We wouldnt blame demar is coach continually made him defend opposing centers. Or constantly drew up center of the court three point plays for him.

        And I also believe that you have to give JV more than this year to prove himself, as some put it. He has only been in the league for four years, he is at one of the slowest learning curve positions in the nba, and has shown REMARKABLE improvement from season to season to season, while at the same time continually giving other players more years to show out as less effective.

        Comment


        • Snooch wrote: View Post
          you can trade a player for nothing, it creates a tpe. Then you can then renounce your tpe(not sure if there is a "waiting" period on the renouncement or not)


          Not sue where you get the 24 million capspace from.
          planetmars wrote:
          Felt like doing some math tonight.. this is the outlook for 2016 (using bball insiders for help):

          Assuming cap is at $89M.

          Without DD's cap hold, Ross and Bioymbo - they have $24,017,630 cap space left.
          Just using planetmars general #'s

          Comment


          • Well, look, everybody likes JV. Everybody.

            But there is a lot of talk that the game is moving away from his type of player anyway. Now I think I understand that the fact that he has a mid-range game at all, and can shoot free-throws, is a big deal. And the offensive rebounds.

            But ... Well, people have a hard time moving off of their preferred positions .... here and elsewhere.

            I've factored my own pro-Demar bias into my positions by acknowledging he has to show improvement .... and by assuming he'll take some sort of salary hit to stay. If he doesn't, it's not on "us" anymore ... it's on him. Hasta La Vista ...

            But if JV doesn't take the step (and I Heard you - he could take it the year after we move him), wouldn't his cap money + Bebe + Bismack + KD + DD + DL + DC leave us in an interesting position? Plus a pick, maybe?

            You asked me why I'm here Axel. It's not just to be told that DeMar's shit, is it?
            Last edited by Wild-ling#1; Thu Sep 3, 2015, 04:00 PM.

            Comment


            • Wild-ling#1 wrote: View Post
              Just using planetmars general #'s
              OK, then yes, if you wanted to keep demar you would reduce that 24 million dollar number by 15 million.

              and add to that the combined salary of Ppat and Cujo and you would have a total of about 22 million.

              Not enough money to get him yet, and you are now out:
              Ross, Biyombo, Ppat and Cujo and still need another 3 million, so you are looking at adding Wright and Bebe(just and example.

              So to offer KD 26 million, and retain Demars birdrights you have to get rid of the following players:
              Ross, Birombo, Ppat, Cojo, Wright and Bebe. and only have VERY SMALL Exemptions available and hopefully the draft picks.

              Lowry/
              Demar/Powell
              KD/Bruno
              DC
              JV

              and that is stil assuming that you can find a taker on all of those guys without giving back any salary.


              Or you can look to package either Lowry or JV with depth, leaving, in most peoples opinion, even bigger holes in the team than gutting the bench would.

              Comment


              • Wild-ling#1 wrote: View Post
                Well, look, everybody likes JV. Everybody.

                But there is a lot of talk that the game is moving away from his type of player anyway. Now I think I understand that the fact that he has a mid-range game at all, and can shoot free-throws, is a big deal.

                But ... Well, people jhave a hard time moving off of their preferred positions .... here and elsewhere.

                But if JV doesn't take the step (and i Heard you - he could take it the year after we move him), wouldn't his cap money + Bebe + Bismack + KD + DD + DL + DC leave us in an interesting position? Plus a pick, maybe?

                You asked me why I'm here Axel. It's not just to be told that DeMar's shit, is it?
                Not really, no, because if we moved JV and say, Bebe, and wright to make the space for KD we would have:

                KL/Joseph
                DD/Powell
                KD/Bruno
                DC/Biyombo
                Ppat

                And very limited, and I mean VERY limited resources to upgrade that front court.

                And the game is not moving away from the center, that is completely overblown, and the team that leads the way in presenting this new theory was GS...and there are MANY articles that show that without Bogut, the small ball would have never worked in the first place.

                Small ball is a limited use tool, it is not going to be effective over the course of an 82 game season, otherwise you would be seeing the bosh's, Davis' etc lineing up at the center spot and not the pf.

                Comment


                • But I'd rather keep both. Where the f*$! is Dan, anyway?

                  Comment


                  • Wild-ling#1 wrote: View Post
                    Well, look, everybody likes JV. Everybody.

                    But there is a lot of talk that the game is moving away from his type of player anyway. Now I think I understand that the fact that he has a mid-range game at all, and can shoot free-throws, is a big deal.

                    But ... Well, people have a hard time moving off of their preferred positions .... here and elsewhere.

                    I've factored my own pro-Demar bias into my positions by acknowledging he has to show improvement .... and by assuming he'll take some sort of salary hit to stay. If he doesn't, it's not on "us" anymore ... it's on him. Hasta La Vista ...

                    But if JV doesn't take the step (and I Heard you - he could take it the year after we move him), wouldn't his cap money + Bebe + Bismack + KD + DD + DL + DC leave us in an interesting position? Plus a pick, maybe?

                    You asked me why I'm here Axel. It's not just to be told that DeMar's shit, is it?
                    It might be

                    You've moved from poking holes in suggestions to providing ideas and asking questions and see how the discussion have evolved? Much better I think all can agree.

                    I can understand that we need to explore absolutely every avenue within the cap, but at the end of the day, we have a pretty good team that lacks a star. Swapping DD for KD straight up allows us to keep that team, add that star and replace scoring without creating new holes. Keeping DD to be a secondary/bench scorers seems like a luxury for the offence at the expense of defence and rebounding. I watched too much "offence first, offence second, offence third" basketball lately from this club.
                    Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                    If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                    Comment


                    • Wild-ling#1 wrote: View Post
                      But I'd rather keep both. Where the f*$! is Dan, anyway?

                      it is possible to do so.

                      The most reasonable way would be to look to move Carrol and Joseph in advance of the deadline for about a 4 million dollar bigman and the rest all free agents, then renounce all free agents.

                      ie:
                      Carroll and Joseph for Noah and mirotic

                      Lowry/Wright
                      Demar/Powell
                      KD/Bruno
                      Mirotic/Ppat
                      JV/Bebe

                      it works, but is is a team that lacks outside shooting and a sixth man, but it is a start. Personally I see too much replicated skill, but you get far more handcuffed adding so many variables.

                      Comment


                      • Yes, I think I understood the ... ahem, "logic" ... of your position as regards the str8 up KD-DD swap.

                        It seems we'd create a 6th man out of somebody, while losing JV.

                        But wouldn't other teams just give-the-F@#!-up if we were rotating KD, DeMar and Kyle on the wings ... with Carroll, Bismack and Bebe?

                        Crazy?

                        Comment


                        • Yes, moving Carroll ... But I like him, too!

                          lol.*

                          [*I never type lol unless I've actually laughed out loud! Tru 'dat. )
                          Last edited by Wild-ling#1; Thu Sep 3, 2015, 04:21 PM.

                          Comment


                          • Wild-ling#1 wrote: View Post
                            Yes, I think I understood the ... ahem, "logic" ... of your position as regards the str8 up KD-DD swap.

                            It seems we'd create a 6th man out of somebody, while losing JV.

                            But wouldn't other teams just give-the-F@#!-up if we were rotating KD, DeMar and Kyle on the wings ... with Carroll, Bismack and Bebe?

                            Crazy?
                            Well for starters Bismack and Bebe are negatives offensively. I think Biyombo would miss half his shots if you left him wide open

                            and you would stay back off of demar any time he doesnt have the ball, cause he is not a good shooter or floor spacer. So any time KD/dd or kl has the ball you can pack the middle.

                            Comment


                            • Wild-ling#1 wrote: View Post
                              Yes, moving Carroll ... But I like him, too!

                              lol.*

                              [*I never type lol unless I've actually laughed out loud! Tru 'dat. )
                              can al;ways hope that DD and KD sign for a combined 25 million or less.

                              Comment


                              • Snooch wrote: View Post
                                Well for starters Bismack and Bebe are negatives offensively. I think Biyombo would miss half his shots if you left him wide open

                                and you would stay back off of demar any time he doesnt have the ball, cause he is not a good shooter or floor spacer. So any time KD/dd or kl has the ball you can pack the middle.
                                Well, that leaves us back at the DeMar's a capable mid-range shooter and gets to the line - but he'd have to improve his shot selection, including some better 3's. Yes, Bismack doesn't have a mid-range game. But he's athletic and a monster dunker, defender .... And young.

                                Just trying to understand the options. I'm sure you've all read the July article on Bruno's development:

                                http://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/n...bruno-caboclo/

                                But I'm not a fan of Michael Grange, personally. And I suppose it's just nice guys saying nice things. But the claim is he's really been learning. Honestly I'd rather he became Kevin Durant than sign KD. Not the Bruno thread, I know (but it's not the Demar thread, either). Any chance the kid can use his natural gifts to any real use this year?

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