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Article: Ujiri Resting Heavily On Maintaining The Status Quo

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  • Lark Benson wrote: View Post
    I think the article's argument is dead on and the fact that it's touched a nerve just demonstrates the hyper-sensitivity of the fan base. ....

    The problem is that Raptors fans probably skipped right over the bit where Chisholm states that there's absolutely nothing wrong with the approach as long as it eventually yields positive improvement instead of tinkering with the fringe around a flawed core. He even states:

    "I’m not sure if it’s meaningfully better than the one he fielded last year, and if I’m right I wonder if we’re on the verge of seeing the first cracks in Ujiri’s longstanding tradition of maintaining the status quo."

    He's not even definitively stating that Ujiri has made a mistake or done a bad job, just wondering if Ujiri is one DD extension away from being trapped. It's a valid question, and anyone who dismisses it outright is just burying their head in the sand.
    golden wrote: View Post
    Then you could say that every GM is using the wait-and-see strategy in between "bold" moves. You could even argue that MU already used the wait and see strategy in his first season, and didn't like the chemistry of Lowry/DD/Gay and immediately made his first "bold" move to trade Gay for what many perceived to be a collection of spare parts. The Gay trade, by itself, essentially renders the article's main premise inaccurate. And what exactly is a "bold move"? Was signing Lowry long term after only one great (& injury free) season a bold move? Again, just a poorly written article.

    I mean, if it's getting to the point where we need to split hairs on semantics and definitions to support Tim C's article, then can we all agree that the piece is poorly written and not well-substantiated.
    Truth is: Ujuiri could end up "trapped" by extending DD, or by not extending DD (and without a premiere player deciding to come). So you can play that game both ways - especially before the fact.

    And Golden is clearly right: "conservative" and "bold" are interpretative terms ... but Chisholm comes down on one side with Ujiri - his qualifications do not remove the conclusory taint of the title, or balance the general thrust of the article.

    But one thing is certain here: Calling anyone who sees things differently hyper-sensitive and accusing them of burying their heads in the sand is a shitty rhetorical move.

    The language of Shakespeare is also the language of "Lord Haw-Haw" (infamous Nazi propagandist). Your choice, seems to me.
    Last edited by Wild-ling#1; Mon Aug 31, 2015, 03:55 PM.

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    • Wild-ling#1 wrote: View Post
      Ujuiri could end up "trapped" by extending DD, or by not extending DD (and without a premiere player deciding to come). So you can play that game any old way.

      And Golden is right: "conservative" and "bold' are interpretative terms ... but Chisholm clearly comes down one side - his qualifications notwithstanding.

      One thing is certain: Calling anyone who sees things differently hyper-sensitive and accusing them of burying their heads in the sand is a shitty rhetorical move.

      The language of Shakespeare is also the language of "Lord Haw-Haw" (infamous Nazi propagandist). Your choice.
      we could sign Gerald Henderson to a 1 year deal next season, draft a top ten player and be better off than if we resigned Demar and made no other changes.

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      • Wild-ling#1 wrote: View Post
        Truth is: Ujuiri could end up "trapped" by extending DD, or by not extending DD (and without a premiere player deciding to come). So you can play that game both ways - especially before the fact.

        And Golden is clearly right: "conservative" and "bold" are interpretative terms ... but Chisholm comes down on one side with Ujiri - his qualifications do not remove the taint of the title, or balance the general thrust of the article.

        But one thing is certain here: Calling anyone who sees things differently hyper-sensitive and accusing them of burying their heads in the sand is a shitty rhetorical move.

        The language of Shakespeare is also the language of "Lord Haw-Haw" (infamous Nazi propagandist). Your choice.
        This. Despite the poorly written article, I heartily applaud Chisholm for venturing into the blogosphere and opening his writing up to direct criticism from the un-washed masses, or in this case, a collective crowd-spanking. It's kind of like NBA players going down to Rucker Park to prove they've also got street game. lol.

        And as pretty much all of us posters have experienced in the forums at one time or another: if you try to pass off even one un-substantiated opinion as fact, then prepare to be corrected and humiliated a thousand times over. Even spelling and punctuation is fair game. Chisholm is a respected professional, so it's probably fair to hold him to a higher standard than simply chucking up opinions for clicks at a slow time of year (aka, trolling).

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        • golden wrote: View Post
          This. Despite the poorly written article, I heartily applaud Chisholm for venturing into the blogosphere and opening his writing up to direct criticism from the un-washed masses, or in this case, a collective crowd-spanking. It's kind of like NBA players going down to Rucker Park to prove they've also got street game. lol.

          And as pretty much all of us posters have experienced in the forums at one time or another: if you try to pass off even one un-substantiated opinion as fact, then prepare to be corrected and humiliated a thousand times over. Even spelling and punctuation is fair game. Chisholm is a respected professional, so it's probably fair to hold him to a higher standard than simply chucking up opinions for clicks at a slow time of year (aka, trolling).
          I would argue that its the opposite, us being NBA players and him being the Rucker ball player stepping onto the NBA court
          Last edited by BS10; Mon Aug 31, 2015, 05:03 PM.
          #JaysWinningLikeItz93'

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          • BS10 wrote: View Post
            I like this idea and don't want to poke holes in it but I enjoy the optimism, if applied, to our own team. I think with a proper system, perhaps, one of our players or multiple could make a great leap in their games or become more productive. But our system last season was poor and did nothing to enhance our players.
            Its more than just the plays we run though. If a great, winning culture is developed it can help give confidence to players to expand their games and exhaust their potential. This comes from the coaches and the players. I do think we are trending up here with bringing in cojo and carroll and with the new facilities. Its thinngs like bringing in jj to both play well and help mentor a young guy like Bruno which help develop young guys, like Bruno.

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            • BS10 wrote: View Post
              I don't really want to argue this point because the Spurs are my 2nd favourite team in the league but when people talk about superstars in the league they usually mention like 3-4 players: KD, Lebron, Anthony Davis, Cp3. I think Duncan was a superstar in his prime, no question about it, but he hardly puts ups the numbers consistently any more for him to be considered so. He does put up some good numbers occasionally when he's asked to do so but to me his role on the Spurs has changed to a lesser one. He still is a high IQ, effective, and efficient player though.

              As for TP and Leonard, they're great players and are effective but I don't qualify them as superstars. Maybe the tier below all-star. Leonard can become an all-star or better though with time and consistency. They're both highly effective players though when they want to be.

              My whole point was that the Spurs used strategy to beat Lebron and the Cavs rather than rely on a superstar caliber player.
              Don't know that I'd have CP3 in that same tier.

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              • Snooch wrote: View Post
                we could sign Gerald Henderson to a 1 year deal next season, draft a top ten player and be better off than if we resigned Demar and made no other changes.
                Just checked in to take a quick peek.

                Trolling DeMar again, I see. Right.

                And ... back on ignore.

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                • Wild-ling#1 wrote: View Post
                  Just checked in to take a quick peek.

                  Trolling DeMar again, I see. Right.

                  And ... back on ignore.
                  and praytell, how is stating that
                  1) signing a guy like henderson to a 1 year deal and drafting a top ten player
                  or
                  2) signing Demar and making "no other changes"

                  trolling.....cause it certainly is not. Demar does not compare statistically to what a top ten pick in what is shaping up to be a damn good draft, and what henderson produces on his own. that is fact. and if you consider that trolling then please keep me on ignore.

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                  • SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post
                    Don't know that I'd have CP3 in that same tier.
                    Maybe a notch below, I think you can throw in Chef Curry in the mix of superstar players as well.
                    #JaysWinningLikeItz93'

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                    • DogeLover1234 wrote: View Post
                      Its more than just the plays we run though. If a great, winning culture is developed it can help give confidence to players to expand their games and exhaust their potential. This comes from the coaches and the players. I do think we are trending up here with bringing in cojo and carroll and with the new facilities. Its thinngs like bringing in jj to both play well and help mentor a young guy like Bruno which help develop young guys, like Bruno.
                      For sure, I agree.

                      I'm more talking about an on-court basketball strategy to allow our players to get more open high percentage shots and a system that involves creating opportunities for your teammates. I think this was lacking in much of the season and could have helped the team chemistry on the court as well as in the locker room. Its just smart basketball that i'd like from the raptors rather than the crap we saw last year.
                      Last edited by BS10; Tue Sep 1, 2015, 04:33 PM.
                      #JaysWinningLikeItz93'

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                      • BS10 wrote: View Post
                        Maybe a notch below, I think you can throw in Chef Curry in the mix of superstar players as well.
                        Yeah, I'd kick down CP3 and insert Curry, given that he just won a chip and MVP. 4-5 is a good number of true superstars for the league to have.

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                        • Scraptor wrote: View Post
                          It's the rosy days of summer, when the playoffs are far enough in the rearview mirror that any concerns kind of ebb away and hope takes over.

                          And there's a third consideration: that Ujiri isn't a great strategist. I've put this forth before, but there doesn't feel like an overarching plan to his moves. He is an excellent tactician, adept at snagging value through trades and seemingly shrewd with his drafting... but there doesn't seem to be a long-term vision for the team.

                          Last offseason I asked, what happens if we flop in the first round again? To which people said it either wouldn't happen, or we'd fire Casey. Well we flopped, and we didn't fire Casey.

                          So this season I ask again, what happens if we flop in the first round again? And what happens if we don't land Kevin Durant? What happens if we continue to be forced to overpay players like DeMarre Carroll? What happens if we lock in DeMar DeRozan at a max contract? What does this team look like another three years out?

                          I think these are valid questions to ask. We'll never be able to fully prove a treadmill until after the fact, so it's okay to speculate about it in the midst of building the team.
                          So if this happens what would you suggest the course of action is instead of asking open ended questions ?

                          Not being a smart ass but what course of action would you take if the ship goes up on the rocks for the venal sin of re upping demar or paying Carroll a salary that is fair market value ? Does Masai get whipped publicly at Nathan Phillips Square or does he do a 6 month stint at Metro East ?
                          And with the 4th overall pick the Toronto Raptors select..... Scottie Barnes.

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                          • Just thought this was interesting since it relates to Demar a SG that has no off-ball skills

                            http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...xt-rajon-rondo

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                            • Wild-ling#1 wrote: View Post
                              Just checked in to take a quick peek.

                              Trolling DeMar again, I see. Right.

                              And ... back on ignore.
                              It was actually a fair counter to your point that Masai could be trapped by not extending DD.

                              Henderson would be much cheaper (for similar production) and a Top 10 pick could yield better long term results anyway.

                              Perfectly legitimate proof that not extending DD still affords Masai plenty of options.

                              Now locking DD into a large extension, that definitely would limit Masai's options and would appear to "trap him" to building around the inherited core.
                              Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                              If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                              • Snooch wrote: View Post
                                and praytell, how is stating that
                                1) signing a guy like henderson to a 1 year deal and drafting a top ten player
                                or
                                2) signing Demar and making "no other changes"

                                trolling.....cause it certainly is not. Demar does not compare statistically to what a top ten pick in what is shaping up to be a damn good draft, and what henderson produces on his own. that is fact. and if you consider that trolling then please keep me on ignore.
                                Are we trading DeMar for a top 10 pick in this scenario? So we'd have this one and Denver/NY's? At a certain point there is diminishing return on draft picks. We could start trading off other youth of course - Bruno, Bebe, Powell, Wright, etc. - because if you don't a good portion of these players will be doomed to fail. Teams overloaded with youth tend to have a lot of difficulty winning as well.

                                A top 10 pick becomes a decent trade for DeMar because of the upside of that pick and the salary cap implications, not because that pick has greater expected return of on-the-court production relative to DeMar because I'm pretty sure it doesn't.

                                Now, you want to replace DeMar with a solid player in Henderson, on the cheap. And that's reasonable, there are bargains out there to be had. But those same bargains will present themselves even if we keep DeMar.

                                In my opinion, to get to that next level as a team, we have to consolidate. If he can get his 3-ball rocking this season, as Carroll and many of us believe he can, and continue his progress on the defensive end of the court, he can be that well-rounded weapon - a winning player on a winning team. DeMar, being one of the elites at his position, and solid bet to have a great season this year,can be one of those great players that remain to take us over the hump.

                                Kevin Durant is hanging up if DeMar is shipped off for a draft pick and Gerald Henderson was shoring up the recruitment effort, I'll tell you that much. That recruitment and others depend, a great deal, on Lowry, DeMar, and Carroll playing like ultimate badasses, but walking away from DeMar at this point really doesn't look like the genius idea you think it does, not when there's a very good chance his efficiencies bump up considerably this season, and that, like Jonas, he buys in at a workable rate.

                                I'd agree that it's not the worst trolling I've seen (from you ).

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