Article: Ujiri Resting Heavily On Maintaining The Status Quo

[golden]

I would argue that being prepared and waiting for an opportunity to arise is another way of saying that he's going to wait and see how things pan out (with 'things' being the lottery, free agency, internal growth, etc). What I've bolded is entirely speculation on your end; you have no idea what offers have been on the table for DD or Lowry or any other Raptor since the Gay trade. This also speaks to the larger point, which is that there is every reason to think that such an opportunity may not arise, and that the Raps will be stuck with their current core due to lack of better options. To respond to BS10, the 'plan' could easily backfire; there are a lot of teams with more cap room, better rosters that are closer to contention and thus more appealing, or who have stockpiled a larger cache of assets than the Raps. There is no guarantee that any plan works out, ever.

I personally think Ujiri has done a great job. I wanted a tank job, yes, but I'm very happy with where the Raps are now and think they're poised to make serious upgrades. Not once have I stated that Ujiri has made a mistake in pursuing this route, and significantly, neither did Chisholm in his article. Everyone seems so quick to equate any criticism or questioning of any kind to a wholesale condemnation of Ujiri's track record and plan as Raptors GM, and that simply isn't what's being put forward. All that's being asked is what might happen if that big move never materializes, and whether that's a function of a lack of options or Ujiri's seemingly cautious nature.

Then you could say that every GM is using the wait-and-see strategy in between "bold" moves. You could even argue that MU already used the wait and see strategy in his first season, and didn't like the chemistry of Lowry/DD/Gay and immediately made his first "bold" move to trade Gay for what many perceived to be a collection of spare parts. The Gay trade, by itself, essentially renders the article's main premise inaccurate. And what exactly is a "bold move"? Was signing Lowry long term after only one great (& injury free) season a bold move? Again, just a poorly written article.

I mean, if it's getting to the point where we need to split hairs on semantics and definitions to support Tim C's article, then can we all agree that the piece is poorly written and not well-substantiated.

[TrueTorontoFan]

I would argue that being prepared and waiting for an opportunity to arise is another way of saying that he's going to wait and see how things pan out (with 'things' being the lottery, free agency, internal growth, etc). What I've bolded is entirely speculation on your end; you have no idea what offers have been on the table for DD or Lowry or any other Raptor since the Gay trade. This also speaks to the larger point, which is that there is every reason to think that such an opportunity may not arise, and that the Raps will be stuck with their current core due to lack of better options. To respond to BS10, the 'plan' could easily backfire; there are a lot of teams with more cap room, better rosters that are closer to contention and thus more appealing, or who have stockpiled a larger cache of assets than the Raps. There is no guarantee that any plan works out, ever.

I personally think Ujiri has done a great job. I wanted a tank job, yes, but I'm very happy with where the Raps are now and think they're poised to make serious upgrades. Not once have I stated that Ujiri has made a mistake in pursuing this route, and significantly, neither did Chisholm in his article. Everyone seems so quick to equate any criticism or questioning of any kind to a wholesale condemnation of Ujiri's track record and plan as Raptors GM, and that simply isn't what's being put forward. All that's being asked is what might happen if that big move never materializes, and whether that's a function of a lack of options or Ujiri's seemingly cautious nature.

but every plan could backfire you still should have a plan

[Nilanka]

I think the article's argument is dead on and the fact that it's touched a nerve just demonstrates the hyper-sensitivity of the fan base.

All the article does is point out the obvious: that Ujiri hasn't shaken things up since the Gay trade. The team's success since the trade has been found money that Ujiri didn't want to fuck with, the team overachieved last year, and it's possible that they're in for a sustained period of good-but-not-great play if there's neither a jump in development or an upgrade to the core.

The problem is that Raptors fans probably skipped right over the bit where Chisholm states that there's absolutely nothing wrong with the approach as long as it eventually yields positive improvement instead of tinkering with the fringe around a flawed core. He even states:

"I’m not sure if it’s meaningfully better than the one he fielded last year, and if I’m right I wonder if we’re on the verge of seeing the first cracks in Ujiri’s longstanding tradition of maintaining the status quo."

He's not even definitively stating that Ujiri has made a mistake or done a bad job, just wondering if Ujiri is one DD extension away from being trapped. It's a valid question, and anyone who dismisses it outright is just burying their head in the sand.

Agreed. I'm somewhat surprised at the group's reaction to the article.

[Axel]

Agreed. I'm somewhat surprised at the group's reaction to the article.

I read the article after the thread (rarely read front page) and while I think the reactions are a bit off, I still think the article missed a large dose of reality.

Labelling Masai's last 2 years as simply waiting is misleading. Consider the state of the team when he took over; large contracts owed to Bargnani and Gay, lack of picks, losing. Shedding both Bargs and Gay, while improving the team (both on court and future assets) is amazingly, especially so given that he has done it while setting the team up to be a cap flexible option. When Masai came on board, most of us would have been thrilled with either improving on the court or financially flexible; few would have hoped for both.

This was the first time that Masai was no longer undoing the mess he inherited. And what did he accomplish? A sit down with a marquee free agent at a position of need that would have easily been the biggest signing in team history. Upon missing out, finding a legit starting 3, a young defensively PG and extra pick. Not exactly just playing out the string that the article portrays.

[Apollo]

Out with the new, in with the old?

I think some of the media, both traditional and internet, have fed off the Raptors struggling for quite sometime in:

• Taking big risks to get ahead.
• Having that blow up in their faces.
• Waiting for the mess to come off the books.
• Claiming they have a plan and want to rebuild through the draft(translated: they stink, they've been complete failures, the mess can't be fixed and thus they have opted to pray for a jackpot in the lotto to save their jobs.)
• Rinse & repeat.

When someone deviates from this destructive, shortsighted approach then suddenly there's something wrong with them (from the perspective of people looking for something to talk about it August). Yeah, because the traditional Raptors approach has been SO successful in the past. We've all be spoiled with year after year of success at the hands of these other guys out there making a splash.

It's August, people need something to write about and so this is what you get. Shame on Ujiri for being so committed to a conservative, value oriented approach. He has some nerve to implement a culture of consistency and cohesiveness. Like that ever works...

[golden]

I think some of the media, both traditional and internet, have fed off the Raptors struggling for quite sometime in:

• Taking big risks to get ahead.
• Having that blow up in their faces.
• Waiting for the mess to come off the books.
• Claiming they have a plan and want to rebuild through the draft(translated: they stink, they've been complete failures, the mess can't be fixed and thus they have opted to pray for a jackpot in the lotto to save their jobs.)
• Rinse & repeat.

When someone deviates from this destructive, shortsighted approach then suddenly there's something wrong with them (from the perspective of people looking for something to talk about it August). Yeah, because the traditional Raptors approach has been SO successful in the past. We've all be spoiled with year after year of success at the hands of these other guys out there making a splash.

It's August, people need something to write about and so this is what you get. Shame on Ujiri for being so committed to a conservative, value oriented approach. He has some nerve to implement a culture of consistency and cohesiveness. Like that ever works...

Nice post. When you use the term short-sighted, people will assume you're referring to BC, but Glen Grunwald did pretty much the same thing. MU appears to be looking long-term, but some people think the only long-term strategy for a franchise must involve tanking for a home-run draft pick (ala Philly).

IMO, there are other ways to think/act long term than just tanking. The D-League franchise and Bruno (bold pick) are perfect examples of that. I could easily envision the next "bold move" to be trading Lowry + picks to draft Jamal Murray if he blows up at UK this year. That would be a long-term move to position ourselves for Wiggins coming home, 6 years from now, while still remaining competitive with Cojo, D-Wright and hopefully a new coach.

[Apollo]

Yes, there certainly are alternative options to the fire sale lottery cop out method.

We should all be happy we have a team in the playoffs and with the assets to make something significant happen when the right opportunity presents itself. Ujiri is clearly ready to maximize gains for any right place, right time scenario that should arise.

In the meantime let's bash him for not forcing the issues and later when he does something contrary, that works, we'll forget all about this, fall in love with him again and praise him for his great move... Until we're bored again. *sigh*

[Scraptor]

Agreed. I'm somewhat surprised at the group's reaction to the article.

It's the rosy days of summer, when the playoffs are far enough in the rearview mirror that any concerns kind of ebb away and hope takes over.

All that's being asked is what might happen if that big move never materializes, and whether that's a function of a lack of options or Ujiri's seemingly cautious nature.

And there's a third consideration: that Ujiri isn't a great strategist. I've put this forth before, but there doesn't feel like an overarching plan to his moves. He is an excellent tactician, adept at snagging value through trades and seemingly shrewd with his drafting... but there doesn't seem to be a long-term vision for the team.

Last offseason I asked, what happens if we flop in the first round again? To which people said it either wouldn't happen, or we'd fire Casey. Well we flopped, and we didn't fire Casey.

So this season I ask again, what happens if we flop in the first round again? And what happens if we don't land Kevin Durant? What happens if we continue to be forced to overpay players like DeMarre Carroll? What happens if we lock in DeMar DeRozan at a max contract? What does this team look like another three years out?

I think these are valid questions to ask. We'll never be able to fully prove a treadmill until after the fact, so it's okay to speculate about it in the midst of building the team.

[Wild-ling#1]

Sorry for the hyperbole but ESPN had them in the bottom seed and SI which uses WS projects 50 wins but they were projected as high last season and fell short of expectation. If Raps fall to the bottom seeds they face #1 or #2 and they've already been upset by lower seeds twice upsetting a #1 or #2 is very rare

Okay, yes. Nice recovery. If the Cavs can take half-a-season to "gel", then how will the Raptors look early? And we have to wait to see what the coaches make of all this.

Still, Kyle, DeMar and Jonas have to know there might be no year like this year in their entire careers.

Starting with the 2016 Toronto All-Star game. Through the playoffs. Then into 2016 free agency. And then on to the Olympics ...

With a good start, we could send three to the All Star Game. The Olympics? - "DD, JV, CoJo, Scola: "You're up!". Might Kyle be a dark horse?

Free Agency? The playoffs?

Oh, Man!! F$#@ the Leafs.

So, now. Now would be a good time to invest and hit your stride. Think they're excited?

I think there's just too much to look forward to, too much motivating our guys, to be pessimistic.

So how about cautiously optimistic?

[Snooch]

I think we see gigantic changes in offseason 2016 to this team, no matter what happens.

I feel very strongly that Massai is gonna go hard after KD (as he should) and will succeed.

after that, if he is able to get away with moving Lowry (provided Joseph shows he can be a starter) then he goes after Pau gasol.

Any money after draft picks will go towards depth/sixth man.

Draft Murray

Cujo/Wright
Carroll/Murray/Powell
KD/FA/Bruno
Gasol/Ppat
JV/Biyombo

[mcHAPPY]

It's the rosy days of summer, when the playoffs are far enough in the rearview mirror that any concerns kind of ebb away and hope takes over.



And there's a third consideration: that Ujiri isn't a great strategist. I've put this forth before, but there doesn't feel like an overarching plan to his moves. He is an excellent tactician, adept at snagging value through trades and seemingly shrewd with his drafting... but there doesn't seem to be a long-term vision for the team.

Last offseason I asked, what happens if we flop in the first round again? To which people said it either wouldn't happen, or we'd fire Casey. Well we flopped, and we didn't fire Casey.

So this season I ask again, what happens if we flop in the first round again? And what happens if we don't land Kevin Durant? What happens if we continue to be forced to overpay players like DeMarre Carroll? What happens if we lock in DeMar DeRozan at a max contract? What does this team look like another three years out?

I think these are valid questions to ask. We'll never be able to fully prove a treadmill until after the fact, so it's okay to speculate about it in the midst of building the team.

Maybe Ujiri isn't a great strategist. But I can guarantee you Bobby Webster is.


I whole heartedly disagree with the notion there isn't a vision for this team. Vision seems quite obvious, in my opinion:

1) Build through the draft
2) develop from within (DLeague team, 3rd string youth)
3) don't waste cap space on dead weight contracts
4) seek better than average win producing players
5) maintain flexibility to get a star


What happens if you flop in the first round? You fire Casey and let DD walk.
What happens if you don't land Durant? Look at Horford.
What happens if we continue to be forced to overpay players like DC? Avg $14.5M per year in the new cap world is not an overpay.
What happens if we lock in DD at max? Panic.
What does this team look like three years out? Much different than today, most likely, since there isn't a contending core currently in place.



I think there is a lack of patience on Tim C's part. Yes, Casey is still there. Yes, DeRozan is still there. But look how far the team has come in 2 years. I look forward to seeing what comes next. Ujiri has shown major league award won't sway him to keep someone who doesn't fit his vision. Ujiri has also shown that sentimental fan favourties won't sway him to keep someone who doesn't fit his vision.


Instead of questioning what Ujiri hasn't done, maybe Tim C and supporters should provide evidence of what he has done wrong?

[S.R.]

It's the rosy days of summer, when the playoffs are far enough in the rearview mirror that any concerns kind of ebb away and hope takes over.



And there's a third consideration: that Ujiri isn't a great strategist. I've put this forth before, but there doesn't feel like an overarching plan to his moves. He is an excellent tactician, adept at snagging value through trades and seemingly shrewd with his drafting... but there doesn't seem to be a long-term vision for the team.

Last offseason I asked, what happens if we flop in the first round again? To which people said it either wouldn't happen, or we'd fire Casey. Well we flopped, and we didn't fire Casey.

So this season I ask again, what happens if we flop in the first round again? And what happens if we don't land Kevin Durant? What happens if we continue to be forced to overpay players like DeMarre Carroll? What happens if we lock in DeMar DeRozan at a max contract? What does this team look like another three years out?

I think these are valid questions to ask. We'll never be able to fully prove a treadmill until after the fact, so it's okay to speculate about it in the midst of building the team.

If the team flops again AND Casey and DD are retained, then challenging the strategy/plan will be completely justified. For now, "the best days are in the future" is a strange criticism. Future improvement is the goal of 29 of 30 teams in the league, since all but 1 team came up short last year.

I agree with mcHAPPY, my main problem here is not that someone is questioning the strategy or providing counter points (both great things to do), it's that the original article is loose with a lot of details, omits key ones, and spins the rest of them.

[mcHAPPY]

I think we see gigantic changes in offseason 2016 to this team, no matter what happens.

I feel very strongly that Massai is gonna go hard after KD (as he should) and will succeed.

after that, if he is able to get away with moving Lowry (provided Joseph shows he can be a starter) then he goes after Pau gasol.

Any money after draft picks will go towards depth/sixth man.

Draft Murray

Cujo/Wright
Carroll/Murray/Powell
KD/FA/Bruno
Gasol/Ppat
JV/Biyombo

That is the spirit!

[S.R.]

Ujiri has said he intends to keep the team competitive while building for the future, which so far describes what he's been doing perfectly. It's why he retains core players if their contracts are reasonable and the team is winning (even if those players are "BC's guys"). It's also why he dumps guys not helping the team presently, either on the court or contractually. It's also why, when the team wasn't competitive with Rudy, he was ready to trade 3 of 5 starters. That explains the" inertia" to me. Sometimes not making a move is the right move.

[mcHAPPY]

Ujiri has said he intends to keep the team competitive while building for the future, which so far describes what he's been doing perfectly. It's why he retains core players if their contracts are reasonable and the team is winning (even if those players are "BC's guys"). It's also why he dumps guys not helping the team presently, either on the court or contractually. It's also why, when the team wasn't competitive with Rudy, he was ready to trade 3 of 5 starters. That explains the" inertia" to me. Sometimes not making a move is the right move.

And that wasn't his first choice.

Someone who is willing to change course on a dime and not fight the trend is the type of person you want making your decisions.