Article: Ujiri Resting Heavily On Maintaining The Status Quo

[Axel]

Are we trading DeMar for a top 10 pick in this scenario? So we'd have this one and Denver/NY's? At a certain point there is diminishing return on draft picks. We could start trading off other youth of course - Bruno, Bebe, Powell, Wright, etc. - because if you don't a good portion of these players will be doomed to fail. Teams overloaded with youth tend to have a lot of difficulty winning as well.

A top 10 pick becomes a decent trade for DeMar because of the upside of that pick and the salary cap implications, not because that pick has greater expected return of on-the-court production relative to DeMar because I'm pretty sure it doesn't.

Now, you want to replace DeMar with a solid player in Henderson, on the cheap. And that's reasonable, there are bargains out there to be had. But those same bargains will present themselves even if we keep DeMar.

In my opinion, to get to that next level as a team, we have to consolidate. If he can get his 3-ball rocking this season, as Carroll and many of us believe he can, and continue his progress on the defensive end of the court, he can be that well-rounded weapon - a winning player on a winning team. DeMar, being one of the elites at his position, and solid bet to have a great season this year,can be one of those great players that remain to take us over the hump.

Kevin Durant is hanging up if DeMar is shipped off for a draft pick and Gerald Henderson was shoring up the recruitment effort, I'll tell you that much. That recruitment and others depend, a great deal, on Lowry, DeMar, and Carroll playing like ultimate badasses, but walking away from DeMar at this point really doesn't look like the genius idea you think it does, not when there's a very good chance his efficiencies bump up considerably this season, and that, like Jonas, he buys in at a workable rate.

I'd agree that it's not the worst trolling I've seen (from you ).

We can't sign KD without renouncing DD anyway. So any KD pitch is really built around Drake, JV, KL (maybe), Carroll, Eastern Conference, Masai and high picks.

[Snooch]

Are we trading DeMar for a top 10 pick in this scenario? So we'd have this one and Denver/NY's? At a certain point there is diminishing return on draft picks. We could start trading off other youth of course - Bruno, Bebe, Powell, Wright, etc. - because if you don't a good portion of these players will be doomed to fail. Teams overloaded with youth tend to have a lot of difficulty winning as well.

A top 10 pick becomes a decent trade for DeMar because of the upside of that pick and the salary cap implications, not because that pick has greater expected return of on-the-court production relative to DeMar because I'm pretty sure it doesn't.

Now, you want to replace DeMar with a solid player in Henderson, on the cheap. And that's reasonable, there are bargains out there to be had. But those same bargains will present themselves even if we keep DeMar.

In my opinion, to get to that next level as a team, we have to consolidate. If he can get his 3-ball rocking this season, as Carroll and many of us believe he can, and continue his progress on the defensive end of the court, he can be that well-rounded weapon - a winning player on a winning team. DeMar, being one of the elites at his position, and solid bet to have a great season this year,can be one of those great players that remain to take us over the hump.

Kevin Durant is hanging up if DeMar is shipped off for a draft pick and Gerald Henderson was shoring up the recruitment effort, I'll tell you that much. That recruitment and others depend, a great deal, on Lowry, DeMar, and Carroll playing like ultimate badasses, but walking away from DeMar at this point really doesn't look like the genius idea you think it does, not when there's a very good chance his efficiencies bump up considerably this season, and that, like Jonas, he buys in at a workable rate.

I'd agree that it's not the worst trolling I've seen (from you ).

no, i am not saying trade at all.

i am of solid belief thatva one year henderson/or similar player and the nyk puck would not make us any worse of a team than what we have right now....with zero other changes other than demar resigned at 20 million per for 5 years

i do not think demar will make a vast improvement in his skill level in year seven to warrant him taking is over the hump, ajd i also dont see possible scenario in which durant hangs up the phone because we dont resign demar. durajt is not going to base his possible decision on a player like him as the primary response. it will be money, management, team(not demar but team) city, future flexibility.

[SkywalkerAC]

It was actually a fair counter to your point that Masai could be trapped by not extending DD.

Henderson would be much cheaper (for similar production) and a Top 10 pick could yield better long term results anyway.

Perfectly legitimate proof that not extending DD still affords Masai plenty of options.

Now locking DD into a large extension, that definitely would limit Masai's options and would appear to "trap him" to building around the inherited core.

Masai seems to view higher calibre players as tradeable assets than option-limiting traps. Assets tend to increase your options rather than limit them. Of course when you have your mind set on the asset that is cap-space, that will be in competition with your other assets. The big question is how intent Masai is on cap space, and who's the best candidate for the chopping block, given that DeMar's cap hold is only 15 mill or so.

[Snooch]

Are we trading DeMar for a top 10 pick in this scenario? So we'd have this one and Denver/NY's? At a certain point there is diminishing return on draft picks. We could start trading off other youth of course - Bruno, Bebe, Powell, Wright, etc. - because if you don't a good portion of these players will be doomed to fail. Teams overloaded with youth tend to have a lot of difficulty winning as well.

A top 10 pick becomes a decent trade for DeMar because of the upside of that pick and the salary cap implications, not because that pick has greater expected return of on-the-court production relative to DeMar because I'm pretty sure it doesn't.

Now, you want to replace DeMar with a solid player in Henderson, on the cheap. And that's reasonable, there are bargains out there to be had. But those same bargains will present themselves even if we keep DeMar.

In my opinion, to get to that next level as a team, we have to consolidate. If he can get his 3-ball rocking this season, as Carroll and many of us believe he can, and continue his progress on the defensive end of the court, he can be that well-rounded weapon - a winning player on a winning team. DeMar, being one of the elites at his position, and solid bet to have a great season this year,can be one of those great players that remain to take us over the hump.

Kevin Durant is hanging up if DeMar is shipped off for a draft pick and Gerald Henderson was shoring up the recruitment effort, I'll tell you that much. That recruitment and others depend, a great deal, on Lowry, DeMar, and Carroll playing like ultimate badasses, but walking away from DeMar at this point really doesn't look like the genius idea you think it does, not when there's a very good chance his efficiencies bump up considerably this season, and that, like Jonas, he buys in at a workable rate.

I'd agree that it's not the worst trolling I've seen (from you ).

no, i am not saying trade at all.

i am of solid belief thatva one year henderson/or similar player and the nyk puck would not make us any worse of a team than what we have right now....with zero other changes other than demar resigned at 20 million per for 5 years

i do not think demar will make a vast improvement in his skill level in year seven to warrant him taking is over the hump, ajd i also dont see possible scenario in which durant hangs up the phone because we dont resign demar. durajt is not going to base his possible decision on a player like him as the primary response. it will be money, management, team(not demar but team) city, future flexibility.

[mcHAPPY]

Masai seems to view higher calibre players as tradeable assets than option-limiting traps. Assets tend to increase your options rather than limit them. Of course when you have your mind set on the asset that is cap-space, that will be in competition with your other assets. The big question is how intent Masai is on cap space, and who's the best candidate for the chopping block, given that DeMar's cap hold is only 15 mill or so.

Given the payroll structure minus DD cap hold, I would bet he is very intent on having cap space.

[BS10]

Another thread that turns into a DD one. What would this forum be without DD? A ghost town.

[SkywalkerAC]

no, i am not saying trade at all.

i am of solid belief thatva one year henderson/or similar player and the nyk puck would not make us any worse of a team than what we have right now....with zero other changes other than demar resigned at 20 million per for 5 years

i do not think demar will make a vast improvement in his skill level in year seven to warrant him taking is over the hump, ajd i also dont see possible scenario in which durant hangs up the phone because we dont resign demar. durajt is not going to base his possible decision on a player like him as the primary response. it will be money, management, team(not demar but team) city, future flexibility.

Why doesn't DeMar get to play with the top 10 pick? Or what? I'm confused.

And you just don't think DeMar can make a big jump in his play from this last season, at the age of 26, because...? It's a contract year, he's working his ass off on the very thing we all know he needs to add - 3-point shooting - also one of the skills most dependably improved with practice, he has both an improved team around him and a familiar team, and he's getting into what are the prime years defensively (late 20s). You think it's rational to assume no improvement this year and beyond?

'Cause it doesn't look like a solid bet to me.

[SkywalkerAC]

Given the payroll structure minus DD cap hold, I would bet he is very intent on having cap space.

No room for Ross either then?

[SkywalkerAC]

We can't sign KD without renouncing DD anyway. So any KD pitch is really built around Drake, JV, KL (maybe), Carroll, Eastern Conference, Masai and high picks.

Pretty sure we could make it work with DD's cap hold by trading Lowry for an expiring.

[Axel]

Masai seems to view higher calibre players as tradeable assets than option-limiting traps. Assets tend to increase your options rather than limit them. Of course when you have your mind set on the asset that is cap-space, that will be in competition with your other assets. The big question is how intent Masai is on cap space, and who's the best candidate for the chopping block, given that DeMar's cap hold is only 15 mill or so.

Cap space and the flexibility it affords are what I think Masai is looking at. Every move he has made has been to coincide with being flexible at the right time. Can't see him giving that up.

Either way, the point Wildling made said that not extending DD traps Masai but I think all the signs point to the contrary.

[Axel]

Pretty sure we could make it work with DD's cap hold by trading Lowry for an expiring.

Oh well I was under the assumption that we would be keeping Lowry as part of our pitch.

[SkywalkerAC]

Cap space and the flexibility it affords are what I think Masai is looking at. Every move he has made has been to coincide with being flexible at the right time. Can't see him giving that up.

Either way, the point Wildling made said that not extending DD traps Masai but I think all the signs point to the contrary.

Yeah, but he timed his cap space for this year, and made very good use of it. Hitting the free agent market 2 years in a row is easier said than done, and we're not actually set up to be under the cap as of now, and getting under again will require the sacrifice of some assets. I'm of the opinion that when you're a little bit under, but not enough to swing for the fences, and don't have anyone you really want to unload, you use the bit of space to facilitate trades, especially with those that are desperate to get further under.

[Scraptor]

Instead of questioning what Ujiri hasn't done, maybe Tim C and supporters should provide evidence of what he has done wrong?

That's just it. The evidence will only be inarguable proof after the fact, unfortunately, because no one ever thinks they're on a treadmill while they're on it.

Individually most of his moves look fine, but take a longer-term, bigger-picture view and they don't look like they're going to move the needle enough. If you believe the core is flawed and unable to compete at the highest level, then incrementalism won't get us anywhere.

I mean there was a lot of talk about how this was a super important summer for Masai because of the capspace and the opportunity to bring in a new coach.

Among all the free agents available, very few were advocating for Carroll, who is largely viewed as a role player and was considered to be worth by some $10mm/yr:
http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...ptors&p=468661

And the one upshot of losing in the first round was having the excuse to bring in a better coach.

Now we're shifting the goalposts yet again into the summer of 2016. And with DeMar taking part in the recruiting of Carroll, I would bet good money that he'll be back for a large sum of money. It just looks like we're trying to swim in settling concrete.

But a safe strategy is pretty unassailable. There are no wrong glaring moves, only renewed hope into each season as time passes you by.

[Snooch]

Why doesn't DeMar get to play with the top 10 pick? Or what? I'm confused.

And you just don't think DeMar can make a big jump in his play from this last season, at the age of 26, because...? It's a contract year, he's working his ass off on the very thing we all know he needs to add - 3-point shooting - also one of the skills most dependably improved with practice, he has both an improved team around him and a familiar team, and he's getting into what are the prime years defensively (late 20s). You think it's rational to assume no improvement this year and beyond?

'Cause it doesn't look like a solid bet to me.

Its not that confusing actually...I dont think Demar is any better than Henderson and a top ten pick on his own. Demar and the top ten pick is not better for the team than henderson on a one year deal and the top ten pick.

working his ass of, that is all heresay, he has been doing the same thing for multiple years now, and there has only been incremental improvements over the course of those season in certain, yet not consistant, areas of his game. Like has been gone over far too long, history suggests that demar will continue to "work hard" etc, but at the end of the day, as a seventh year player, we are not going to see any new habits form and him come out as a new player taking fewer, more effecient shots fdrom better spots on the floor with far higher percentages than he has ever posted in his 6 years previous.

[Wild-ling#1]

It was actually a fair counter to your point that Masai could be trapped by not extending DD.

Henderson would be much cheaper (for similar production) and a Top 10 pick could yield better long term results anyway.

Perfectly legitimate proof that not extending DD still affords Masai plenty of options.

Now locking DD into a large extension, that definitely would limit Masai's options and would appear to "trap him" to building around the inherited core.

The problem with the piece is that being "active" (as opposed to "conservative", or "status quo") is (partially implicitly) defined as making a "move" that may have been impossible. Just not there. Like signing a legit "max" player, for example. As a crap team, when Masai came on board, we weren't going to be considered by the big FA's. You are aware that they're not available like consumer goods at the stores we visit.

I would suggest that Masai has been trying to create "Goldilocks conditions" or a "critical mass" for the next step. That is, working with the pieces you have, and pieces that are available to you to improve your franchise - to the point where big-name FA's do become available to you. Seems there's no other way - unless you happen to draft a couple of "the next big things".

Some seem to want to dismiss at least some of the development, since Masai took, over as "luck". I'm not going to list them all (D-league team, etc., etc.) but the fact is that we are now a perennial play-off team. Kyle Lowry re-signed with us instead of bolting for Miami or L.A. Same money. Great contract. LaMarcus gave us a meeting. There are rumblings about KD liking our team, our town and our global ambassador. We have picks, prospects and cap-space. And a "buzz".

So there are reasons for optimism - aren't there?

Well, no. Certainly not ... not if you insist (i.e.) that we cannot possibly progress with our current coach - or assume Masai is ignorant of his weaknesses. That sort of thing.

But the problem with Snooch's reply to my post is that he is inclined to assume that a) DeMar played his best season in 2013 and b) we could do better with the cap-space we would forego. Fine as opinions ... maybe. Irritating, to many, as relentless, insensitive argument/assumption.

What I said, however, was unassailable: We could paint ourselves into a corner either by extending or by not extending DeMar. He may already be better than some give him credit for (and the stats reveal). He may improve. He may help attract other FA's ... or he may not. Of course.

And how "large" an extension, by the way, Axel? I called JV's nearly precisely. "Nice work, Masai" was the universal view (though a few some thought it not a "bargain").

As far as DeMar goes ... I suspect we'll see ... I expect I'll be pleased. But I suspect I'll be told, repeatedly, that Masai and I are simply wrong-headed.