Article: Ujiri Resting Heavily On Maintaining The Status Quo

[Axel]

I sure like option 5 best. We keep Delon Wright, Bruno JV, DD, DC and KL ... and get Durant.

So who's your lineup?

KL DD KD DC JV
DW BC

No PF or back-up bigs. A lineup with KD and DD seems redundant and DD would make more sense as the 6th man. That further complicates resigning him as gauging his value as he drastically changes roles is quite difficult.

An awful lot of holes get created to attempt to keep a player who's primary value (scoring) is getting replaced by a far superior player (KD). Hence the position of some (perhaps many) that the logical action would be to renounce DD to sign KD; an action would takes no further roster moves (no mid-season deals to make the stars align) and if DD doesn't want to wait for KD to decide, we have fall back options like Batum/Henderson to fill the SG role and more money to add a PF.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

You do know that we could trade for expirings mid season and put other options on the same footing, right?

Whether trades are made during the season or after it, you arrive at the same end result - same players going out (depending on the preferred option/options) and no guaranteed salary beyond the current season coming in, in order to maximize cap space during the 2016 offseason to sign KD.

Making moves during the season won't create new options. It still comes down to effectively trading one of the following for a shot at signing KD (there's risk associated with all of them):
- DeRozan
- Valanciunas
- Carroll
- Lowry & filler
- Patterson & Joseph & filler

[planetmars]

Thanks to planetmars, McHappy and CalgaryRapsFan for laying all that out. Ugh! (I wonder if it's exhaustive; but who could ask for more )

I take your point about KD rendering DeMar being the obvious guy to let go if we can interest KD.

Still, I think that all ought to concede that:

1) We don't have to do it before we find out KD is actually coming. And he might improve. We'll see.

2) KD might have personal reasons for wanting DeMar to stay.

Just because something is hard, doesn't mean impossible, obviously. I sure like option 5 best. We keep Delon Wright, Bruno JV, DD, DC and KL ... and get Durant.

So ... who guards other teams' PF's, I wonder. Is that a problem? Not just DC. Bebe?

Anyway, I think there are others beside me who would like to see this issue fully canvassed. Not so bad for early September. And I never said I have the expertise to do that alone. Doesn't make me an idiot.

To the bold - we won't know if that will happen until a few days into the moratorium though. Otherwise it's called collusion which can result in huge penalties and fines. And by then DD could sign elsewhere. If you want to keep DD and go after KD then I think you'd have to tell DD early that he's going to be on the team regardless of whether KD signs or not.. and I don't know if Masai would do that.

Ultimately I believe that if DD wants to be a Raptor next year then he should keep his player option. I don't think he should let the Raptors dictate his future for him. That's too risky for a player.

[Axel]

To the bold - we won't know if that will happen until a few days into the moratorium though. Otherwise it's called collusion which can result in huge penalties and fines. And by then DD could sign elsewhere. If you want to keep DD and go after KD then I think you'd have to tell DD early that he's going to be on the team regardless of whether KD signs or not.. and I don't know if Masai would do that.

Ultimately I believe that if DD wants to be a Raptor next year then he should keep his player option. I don't think he should let the Raptors dictate his future for him. That's too risky for a player.

If he does that, then better hope for a S&T with OKC to land KD.

All the "he loves Toronto" stuff may finally be put to the test.

[Wild-ling#1]

So who's your lineup?

KL DD KD DC JV
DW BC

No PF or back-up bigs. A lineup with KD and DD seems redundant and DD would make more sense as the 6th man. That further complicates resigning him as gauging his value as he drastically changes roles is quite difficult.

An awful lot of holes get created to attempt to keep a player who's primary value (scoring) is getting replaced by a far superior player (KD). Hence the position of some (perhaps many) that the logical action would be to renounce DD to sign KD; an action would takes no further roster moves (no mid-season deals to make the stars align) and if DD doesn't want to wait for KD to decide, we have fall back options like Batum/Henderson to fill the SG role and more money to add a PF.

I conceded those points before you posted this, Axel - and asked for ideas to assist. And gave reasons why it might be the way to go (cause DeMar improves, KD won't sign without him ...)

But you're saying we can't make do without CoJo ... or replace Ppat with "a guy"? To get Durant and keep DeMar?

[Snooch]

Maybe Axel already covered it, but I think we need DanH or some capologist get specific on a realistic scenario where DD is a lead recruiter for Durant, with KD getting max salary and KD also requiring DD to be on the team. Is this possible, and what does DD's salary and the rest of the Raps team look like?

I have no problem over-paying DD, if that's the package deal cost of getting KD, since KD is worth way more than the max. You can always trade DD later (ala Chandler Parsons) after locking up KD long term.

Assuming that Biyombo picks up his player option, we add 2 draft picks at 3.5 million, and everyone that can be is renounced, everyone including Bruno, Ross, Bebe, Scola, JJ everyone gone.
Leaving: DC, KL, DD, JV, CJ, PP, BB, DW, NP and 2 draft picks (11 players)


Then our salary with Demars 15 million caphold is at 78 million. Meaning we would have about 11 million in space. So we would need to free up 19-20 million or so in order to entice KD.


Now keep in mind that these proposed combinations of players would need to have a salary of ZERO coming back in order to work.

Examples:
Carroll, Ppat (combined 20.25 mill)

Leaving a roster of:
KL/Joseph/Wright
Demar/Powell
KD
Ppat/Biyombo
JV

with only a small exemption and 2 draft picks to fill out roster

2) Ppat, Joseph, Biyombo, Both draft picks, (20 million)

KL/Wright
DD/Powell
KD
Carroll
JV

with only a small exemption to fill out roster

3) Jv + Cujo (21 million)

Lowry/Wright
DD/Powell
KD
Carroll
Ppat/Biyombo

2 draft picks and a small exemption to fill out roster

4) Lowry, Ppat, and 2 of wright, and lesser draft picks( 20 million)

Joseph
DD/Powell
KD
Carroll
Biyombo

with 1 draft pick and a small exemption to fill out roster

5) Release demar and trade 1 of 2 draft picks, or wright

KL/Joseph
Carroll/Powell
KD
Ppat/Biyombo
JV

2 draft picks and small exemption

6) Only renounce Ross and Demar and make a trade of our pick and biyombo for a future pick.

KL/Joseph/Wright
Carroll/Powell
KD/Bruno
Ppat/
JV/Bebe

With NYK pick and small exemption to fill out roster.

[Axel]

I conceded those points before you posted this, Axel - and asked for ideas to assist. And gave reasons why it might be the way to go (cause DeMar improves, KD won't sign without him ...)

But you're saying we can't make do without CoJo ... or replace Ppat with "a guy"? To get Durant and keep DeMar?

I'm asking what's your line up. You didn't answer.

So I'll make assumptions, you either intend to play Carroll or Durant out of position at PF to allow DD to stay. Is the 6th man role really more important than the starting PF?

He's a question for the cap-ologists, how does resigning DD impact our 2017 cap space (obviously with the final $ varying)? Can we still sign a max PF in 2017 if we retain DD?

[Wild-ling#1]

To the bold - we won't know if that will happen until a few days into the moratorium though. Otherwise it's called collusion which can result in huge penalties and fines. And by then DD could sign elsewhere. If you want to keep DD and go after KD then I think you'd have to tell DD early that he's going to be on the team regardless of whether KD signs or not.. and I don't know if Masai would do that.

Ultimately I believe that if DD wants to be a Raptor next year then he should keep his player option. I don't think he should let the Raptors dictate his future for him. That's too risky for a player.

Yeah ... the trust thing. But I'm of the view that Masai gets the new NBA. And in the new NBA, the players decide. If they're talented enough. And I'm fine with that.

[Snooch]

You do know that we could trade for expirings mid season and put other options on the same footing, right?

Risky move for management that is risk averse. Also it can run the potential of a team that over the course of a few months starts loosing and therefore becomes less attractive.

So best case we trade all the assets needed to create space for KD during the season, sign KD and Demar to their max deals, go into luxry tax using the small exemptions available to over the cap teams to fil out the multiple positions needed to be filled.

Worst case, not get KD, resign demar to a huge contract and have nothing left that took a few years to build.

[Wild-ling#1]

I'm asking what's your line up. You didn't answer.

So I'll make assumptions, you either intend to play Carroll or Durant out of position at PF to allow DD to stay. Is the 6th man role really more important than the starting PF?

He's a question for the cap-ologists, how does resigning DD impact our 2017 cap space (obviously with the final $ varying)? Can we still sign a max PF in 2017 if we retain DD?

I asked if we could get "a guy", cheaply, to help at power forward, assuming we got Durant and kept DeMar.

But is not that team not awesome?

And what's with the (apparent, to me anyway) discrepancy between "option 5" and "we also have to give up Bruno, Bebe, etc, etc., etc." that Snooch just put up?

You asked me why I'm here, Axel. It's to get information and discuss possibilities. Not to have people jumping out of closets with their waking nightmares!

[Snooch]

CalgaryRapsFan laid out all the options in his post a few above yours. There are a few different ways to do it and keep DD around, they just involve sending out other guys instead. If KD wants to play with DD we could make it happen. If KD doesn't care, then letting DD walk is the easiest way to be able to offer KD the max.

to add, that in most cases KD would need to prefer DD over any resemblance of a "complete" team

[Snooch]

I'm asking what's your line up. You didn't answer.

So I'll make assumptions, you either intend to play Carroll or Durant out of position at PF to allow DD to stay. Is the 6th man role really more important than the starting PF?

He's a question for the cap-ologists, how does resigning DD impact our 2017 cap space (obviously with the final $ varying)? Can we still sign a max PF in 2017 if we retain DD?

If we do NOTHING other than sign demar to a 20 million starting salary with max raises and add only draft picks to the roster we would have about 25 Million available, which is less than a max salary for a 7 year player that year (would start about 30 million ish) and we would only have
KL/CJ/Wright
DD/Powell
DC/Bruno
pf -
JV/BB

and 3 draft picks

[Axel]

I asked if we could get "a guy", cheaply, to help at power forward, assuming we got Durant and kept DeMar.

But is not that team not awesome?

And what's with the (apparent, to me anyway) discrepancy between "option 5" and "we also have to give up Bruno, Bebe, etc, etc., etc." that Snooch just put up?

You asked me why I'm here, Axel. It's to get information and discuss possibilities. Not to have people jumping out of closets with their waking nightmares!

Well if we have both KD and DD in the fold, not any cap space left this year, so it would be minimum or exceptions to find someone to start at PF, and fill out the roster (or trust the 6th man role to Wright/Caboclo).

Guessing you mean, how is that team not awesome - not enough muscle, killed on the boards and playing guys out of position at PF would increase the risk of injury to that player.

[Snooch]

I asked if we could get "a guy", cheaply, to help at power forward, assuming we got Durant and kept DeMar.

But is not that team not awesome?

And what's with the (apparent, to me anyway) discrepancy between "option 5" and "we also have to give up Bruno, Bebe, etc, etc., etc." that Snooch just put up?

You asked me why I'm here, Axel. It's to get information and discuss possibilities. Not to have people jumping out of closets with their waking nightmares!

there is no apparent discrepancy. In order to make things work under the cap, yet maintain demars 15 million dollar caphold we would need to renounce EVERYONE AND make trade suggested (that is for a starting salary for kd at 29 million)

[Axel]

If we do NOTHING other than sign demar to a 20 million starting salary with max raises and add only draft picks to the roster we would have about 25 Million available, which is less than a max salary for a 7 year player that year (would start about 30 million ish) and we would only have
KL/CJ/Wright
DD/Powell
DC/Bruno
pf -
JV/BB

and 3 draft picks

So if we were to make the moves necessary to sign KD and resign DD, we would have no cap space to sign anyone of note to start at PF for a few years (unless we move Lowry which creates another hole to fill).

Correct?