Article: Ujiri Resting Heavily On Maintaining The Status Quo

[Wild-ling#1]

He specifically mentions keeping DD's cap hold - so no assumptions need to be made

I presented options for both sides, and neither need to be decided today - both options allow DD to play out this year. Heck, DD starts hitting treys, maybe more options exist. But based on the information we have today and history, it all kinda boils down to those options if you want any shot at KD.

If you don't, well I feel sorry for you cause KD is exactly the type of talent you take risks for. No one else on this roster comes close.

Well I'm encouraged that you are open to not wearing a blind-fold, or a paper bag, when DeMar hits the floor this fall.

I remain unconvinced that the options presented are the only ones possible.

But when you say "you feel sorry for me", if I don't accept your point of view, I submit that you undermine the open-mindedness you (thankfully) sought to evidence just two sentences above.

And I just don't like the suggestion that I am to be pitied for my views.

[SkywalkerAC]

I'm confused why you guys don't want to part ways with DD this bad. I assume its because you don't want to be stuck without DD or KD because I don't think those two pair well together if they were to be on the same team.

Remember back in the day when people said we should look to trade DD because of this EXACT scenario?

Not sure why they wouldn't pair well together, KD pairs well with just about anyone.

[DogeLover1234]

I'm confused why you guys don't want to part ways with DD this bad. I assume its because you don't want to be stuck without DD or KD because I don't think those two pair well together if they were to be on the same team.

Remember back in the day when people said we should look to trade DD because of this EXACT scenario?

[Axel]

Article: Ujiri Resting Heavily On Maintaining The Status Quo

We can't just accept this without knowing your assumptions. What did you assume for DD? He can sign a one-year extension, at a lower than max number (and not just because he's loyal, but cause he knows KD is coming) and then we re-do the number in 2017.

What I sense is that the balance of the argument, the location of the divide, is that one side is continually trying to insist/prove that retaining DeMar, and having any hope or positive options left, is either impossible, utterly impractical ... or stupid.

And the other side is only saying it might be done ... and that we don't have to decide today. We can wait to see if Snooch's "he'll never get better" view pans out. And as the assertion by the pro-DeMar side is relatively modest, and open-ended, it's frustrating to be continually pushed on the position.

(And it's not clear we get more for DeMar now than in a trade deadline deal. So those of us who want to have a look at the re-jigged team, and a healthy DeMar, aren't simply holding up the inevitable or progress ... like a pack of sentimental fools.

He specifically mentions keeping DD's cap hold - so no assumptions need to be made

I presented options for both sides, and neither need to be decided today - both options allow DD to play out this year. Heck, DD starts hitting treys, maybe more options exist. But based on the information we have today and history, it all kinda boils down to those options if you want any shot at KD.

If you don't, well I feel sorry for you cause KD is exactly the type of talent you take risks for. No one else on this roster comes close.

[SkywalkerAC]

lol, ross and Ppat, traded for straight expirings, still wouldnt give enough room, would need to add Joseph to that.

So now we are taling Ppat, Ross and Joseph or Demar

Demar And Ross And ...

[Snooch]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Losing Ross and PP in favour of keeping DeMar is "gutting the roster"?

lol, ross and Ppat, traded for straight expirings, still wouldnt give enough room, would need to add Joseph to that.

So now we are taling Ppat, Ross and Joseph or Demar

[Wild-ling#1]

I did the cap math..

We can't just accept this without knowing your assumptions. What did you assume for DD? He can sign a one-year extension, at a lower than max number (and not just because he's loyal, but cause he knows KD is coming) and then we re-do the number in 2017.

What I sense is that the balance of the argument, the location of the divide, is that one side is continually trying to insist/prove that retaining DeMar, and having any hope or positive options left, is either impossible, utterly impractical ... or ... well, clearly misguided

And the other side is only saying it might be done ... and that we don't have to decide today. We can wait to see if Snooch's "he'll never get better" view pans out. And as the assertion by the pro-DeMar side is relatively modest, and open-ended, it's frustrating to be continually pushed on the position.

(And it's not clear we get more for DeMar now than in a trade deadline deal. So those of us who want to have a look at the re-jigged team, and a healthy DeMar, aren't simply holding up the inevitable or progress ... like just so many sentimental fools.

[Snooch]

Well yes. I meant more in a team skill context.

Carroll's primary function is perimeter defender.

JV is the inside man (post up and boards).

Lowry distribution and perimeter shooting.

DD role on the team is scoring. That is his skill set on the team. Very easy to replace that with KD and predict the results vs predicting option 2.

wow, I just sported a semi chub thinking about it.....

[SkywalkerAC]

I did the cap math.. Ross would be gone with or without DD. But from a monetary point of view the Raptors would need to renounce DD and also renounce Scola, JJ, Ross and trade Biyombo (if he picks up his option).

If you prefer to keep DD's cap hold and move the bench then that's CoJo, 2Pat, Bebe with Scola, JJ, Ross and Biyombo.

Or if you prefer to move Lowry then that's Lowry, Bebe with Scola, JJ, Ross and Biyombo.

The last option would be Carroll with Wright (or Bebe or any of our picks) with Scola, JJ, Ross and Biyombo.

And if you trade Carroll/Bebe or Lowry/Bebe or CoJo/2Pat/Bebe then they can't bring back any salary (Raptor's have Bebe's team option so doesn't need to be traded).


In the CoJo/2Pat case you lose a starting PF and since Scola and Biyombo are gone backup PF's as well. That's a tough thing to replace if you were a GM.

You can in theory replace Lowry with CoJo if Lowry is moved but CoJo has to come out guns a blazing.

And Carroll is probably a better fit next to KD than DD would be.

If that's the case, it sure looks like pursing Max cap space is a fool's errand.

[DogeLover1234]

I'd (probably) take option 3 - don't scrap anyone before the offseason, try to arrange a sign and trade with OKC, continue stockpiling assets and looking for consolidating trades if that falls through, and target 2017 for free agency.

But didn't San Antonio effectively take option 2?

Well I don't think that San Antonio is a great example. Unless we can convince our starters to take a massive collective pay cut. We are still at a stage where we have to overpay to get role players (albeit VERY good role players) like Carroll. I don't think we have the right to ask our players to take a pay cut like that for at least another 10-12 years JV/Bruno/Wright have won multiple championships and will be at the tail ends of their careers (having player for Toronto for their whole careers). *Knocks on wood*

[Axel]

And didn't Sacramento take option 1 ... in spades?

No, they really didn't. They made trades in hopes of landing a player, exactly what Option 1 doesn't do.

[mcHAPPY]

Why would it be a disaster? He's not Chris Bosh, Vince Carter or Trace McGrady. What's he done in the playoffs for this team? His skill set is replaceable. Heck go after Joe Johnson for a year or two if KD says no. Lots of wing options in the 2016 class actually. My guess is that Batum will be plan B though.

Or horford.

I think Batum is plan C

[mcHAPPY]

Leting DD walk while chasing KD will be disaster for this club. We have to be realistic and know that we are NOT one of them top destinations for KD. This means that you do not put all your eggs in KD basket. You don't let a legitimate talent walk away for a very small chance that you might get someone like KD.

If KD decides to join us, you can always trade DD. In the worst case scenario, you can package him with some draft picks ( yes, you are sacrificing some late 1st round picks for that maybe) and you will be able to move him.

It makes ZERO sense to let DD walk for a remote possibility that you might get KD while you can still get KD if DD is signed as well

DD will be just like Lou, Amir, and Bro - walking off into sunset with someone else ready to pick up the slack.

If KD joins, you renounce DD and save your draft picks. That is straight up silly. Only way you trade DD with draft picks is if it is a sign and trade with OKC.

Keeping DD with KD has been discussed at very great length. With team as currently set up, DD is the first and best option to go. Would you seriously not swap KD for DD if given opportunity?

[Axel]

I did the cap math.. Ross would be gone with or without DD. But from a monetary point of view the Raptors would need to renounce DD and also renounce Scola, JJ, Ross and trade Biyombo (if he picks up his option).

If you prefer to keep DD's cap hold and move the bench then that's CoJo, 2Pat, Bebe with Scola, JJ, Ross and Biyombo.

Or if you prefer to move Lowry then that's Lowry, Bebe with Scola, JJ, Ross and Biyombo.

The last option would be Carroll with Wright (or Bebe or any of our picks) with Scola, JJ, Ross and Biyombo.

And if you trade Carroll/Bebe or Lowry/Bebe or CoJo/2Pat/Bebe then they can't bring back any salary (Raptor's have Bebe's team option so doesn't need to be traded).


In the CoJo/2Pat case you lose a starting PF and since Scola and Biyombo are gone backup PF's as well. That's a tough thing to replace if you were a GM.

You can in theory replace Lowry with CoJo if Lowry is moved but CoJo has to come out guns a blazing.

And Carroll is probably a better fit next to KD than DD would be.

Awesome, thanks for doing the homework.

So I am safe to assume that you prefer Option 1 as well?

[Wild-ling#1]

I'd (probably) take option 3 - don't scrap anyone before the offseason, try to arrange a sign and trade with OKC, continue stockpiling assets and looking for consolidating trades if that falls through, and target 2017 for free agency.

But didn't San Antonio effectively take option 2?

And didn't Sacramento take option 1 ... in spades?