Article: Ujiri Resting Heavily On Maintaining The Status Quo

[planetmars]

Leting DD walk while chasing KD will be disaster for this club. We have to be realistic and know that we are NOT one of them top destinations for KD. This means that you do not put all your eggs in KD basket. You don't let a legitimate talent walk away for a very small chance that you might get someone like KD.

If KD decides to join us, you can always trade DD. In the worst case scenario, you can package him with some draft picks ( yes, you are sacrificing some late 1st round picks for that maybe) and you will be able to move him.

It makes ZERO sense to let DD walk for a remote possibility that you might get KD while you can still get KD if DD is signed as well

Why would it be a disaster? He's not Chris Bosh, Vince Carter or Trace McGrady. What's he done in the playoffs for this team? His skill set is replaceable. Heck go after Joe Johnson for a year or two if KD says no. Lots of wing options in the 2016 class actually. My guess is that Batum will be plan B though.

[planetmars]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Losing Ross and PP in favour of keeping DeMar is "gutting the roster"?

I did the cap math.. Ross would be gone with or without DD. But from a monetary point of view the Raptors would need to renounce DD and also renounce Scola, JJ, Ross and trade Biyombo (if he picks up his option).

If you prefer to keep DD's cap hold and move the bench then that's CoJo, 2Pat, Bebe with Scola, JJ, Ross and Biyombo.

Or if you prefer to move Lowry then that's Lowry, Bebe with Scola, JJ, Ross and Biyombo.

The last option would be Carroll with Wright (or Bebe or any of our picks) with Scola, JJ, Ross and Biyombo.

And if you trade Carroll/Bebe or Lowry/Bebe or CoJo/2Pat/Bebe then they can't bring back any salary (Raptor's have Bebe's team option so doesn't need to be traded).


In the CoJo/2Pat case you lose a starting PF and since Scola and Biyombo are gone backup PF's as well. That's a tough thing to replace if you were a GM.

You can in theory replace Lowry with CoJo if Lowry is moved but CoJo has to come out guns a blazing.

And Carroll is probably a better fit next to KD than DD would be.

[Axel]

Leting DD walk while chasing KD will be disaster for this club. We have to be realistic and know that we are NOT one of them top destinations for KD. This means that you do not put all your eggs in KD basket. You don't let a legitimate talent walk away for a very small chance that you might get someone like KD.

If KD decides to join us, you can always trade DD. In the worst case scenario, you can package him with some draft picks ( yes, you are sacrificing some late 1st round picks for that maybe) and you will be able to move him.

It makes ZERO sense to let DD walk for a remote possibility that you might get KD while you can still get KD if DD is signed as well

Based on what evidence?

[McRealistic]

Leting DD walk while chasing KD will be disaster for this club. We have to be realistic and know that we are NOT one of them top destinations for KD. This means that you do not put all your eggs in KD basket. You don't let a legitimate talent walk away for a very small chance that you might get someone like KD.

If KD decides to join us, you can always trade DD. In the worst case scenario, you can package him with some draft picks ( yes, you are sacrificing some late 1st round picks for that maybe) and you will be able to move him.

It makes ZERO sense to let DD walk for a remote possibility that you might get KD while you can still get KD if DD is signed as well

[Axel]

DeMar (what, 12 years younger than Manu?), Jonas, Lowry/Carroll, et al.

How many players can we actually keep and still sign a max free agent though?

Seems like most scenarios point to either DD, KL or a glut of players need to go.

But even if you keep those players, what's your lineup? Carroll at the 4? DD off the bench? Plus how do you put a dollar figure on DD if his primary attribute has been replaced? Is he $20M? $15M? $12M?

Much harder to gauge his value in a completely new role.

[mcHAPPY]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Losing Ross and PP in favour of keeping DeMar is "gutting the roster"?

Ross is gone regardless on a KD signing - irrelevant.

[SkywalkerAC]

Demars caphold alone would mean shedding cujo and ppat, or ppat and ross, or cujo and 2 or 3 youngguys.

so I do not see any value in trying to add to demar by gutting the roster. Especially since demar is a high usage low efficiency player. It does not matter what you think will happen in the future, the smart play is to alway go with what you know.....and what we know is what I posted.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Losing Ross and PP in favour of keeping DeMar is "gutting the roster"?

[Axel]

I know you know this but it is not even replacing his scoring, he adds to it, more efficiently, while also playing better defense, with more spacing, better rebounding, better play making.

If you straight up sub a healthy KD for DD on this team, my best guess is, you add anywhere from 8-15 more wins per season and you have a date with LeBron in the conference finals for a couple of years.

Jesus, I need to go breath in to a paper bag just thinking about this.

Well yes. I meant more in a team skill context.

Carroll's primary function is perimeter defender.

JV is the inside man (post up and boards).

Lowry distribution and perimeter shooting.

DD role on the team is scoring. That is his skill set on the team. Very easy to replace that with KD and predict the results vs predicting option 2.

[SkywalkerAC]

big difference between Manu, Timmy D, Parker, Leonard

and

Demar.......

DeMar (what, 12 years younger than Manu?), Jonas, Lowry/Carroll, et al.

[Snooch]

I'd (probably) take option 3 - don't scrap anyone before the offseason, try to arrange a sign and trade with OKC, continue stockpiling assets and looking for consolidating trades if that falls through, and target 2017 for free agency.

But didn't San Antonio effectively take option 2?

big difference between Manu, Timmy D, Parker, Leonard

and

Demar.......

[Snooch]

Well considering that this is a thread about Masai and his strategy (and not just another DD debate), I thought it was appropriate to ask the question, so I'll ask it again.

If you are Masai, do you:

Option 1 - keep the rest of the team intact and sacrifice DD (the risk would be he walks while we chase KD) to be able to show up to your sit down with KD with cap space in hand?

Option 2 - keep DD and go to the sit down with KD with a long list of trade ideas to moves players X, Y, Z to clear cap space (at the risk of gutting the team since return in those deals would be less than typical market value)?

For me, Option 1 is light years better than Option 2.

Option 1 makes more sense for your lineup (KD replaces DD's scoring vs a bunch of players/positions/skills).

Option 1 makes more sense from a sales point - "we insert you here with these players and this system" is more sound than "we put you here after trading these guys and hope to get player X & Y in return with player Z as a fall back".

If Option 1 utterly fails, then we sign a Batum/Henderson type and still have a full roster ready for next cap season target (Ibaka).

Sorry for contributing to this thread going off tract.....

But I agree.

Option 1 is far and away the best business decision.

Business is about maximizing return and minimizing risk, and there are far too many risks involved with option 2. You can get capped out, you can trade away a glue piece that destroys everything you did have, you may not find buyers for those trades, you have to hope that those trades return no salary, you have to hope that you can fill out the roster with very small contracts and that everything clicks....cause all your eggs are in one basket....that is teetering on a otential NYK type of thing where you have multiple contracts that quickly become untradeable.

but option 1 has back out/back up options built right into it

[mcHAPPY]

KD can do anything he wants offensively, and Demarre can easily guard sg or sf.

It is a very safe assumption to say the two of them will play VERY WELL together as Carroll is a 3 and d that can benefit from Durant drawing defenses, and KD can benefit from DC defending.

That is not speculation at all, that is pretty damn apparent. Carroll routinely guarded the more potent offensive player for the Hawks last season at either sg or sf, there is no reason to believe that he cannot do it again.

And KD is a legit superstar who is freakishly fast and long and can easily play against either shooting guards, small forwards or power forwards on the offensive side of the ball.

....or point guard!

He guarded Wall in the playoffs.

John Wall.

One of, if not THE, fastest PG in league.

[SkywalkerAC]

Well considering that this is a thread about Masai and his strategy (and not just another DD debate), I thought it was appropriate to ask the question, so I'll ask it again.

If you are Masai, do you:

Option 1 - keep the rest of the team intact and sacrifice DD (the risk would be he walks while we chase KD) to be able to show up to your sit down with KD with cap space in hand?

Option 2 - keep DD and go to the sit down with KD with a long list of trade ideas to moves players X, Y, Z to clear cap space (at the risk of gutting the team since return in those deals would be less than typical market value)?

For me, Option 1 is light years better than Option 2.

Option 1 makes more sense for your lineup (KD replaces DD's scoring vs a bunch of players/positions/skills).

Option 1 makes more sense from a sales point - "we insert you here with these players and this system" is more sound than "we put you here after trading these guys and hope to get player X & Y in return with player Z as a fall back".

If Option 1 utterly fails, then we sign a Batum/Henderson type and still have a full roster ready for next cap season target (Ibaka).

I'd (probably) take option 3 - don't scrap anyone before the offseason, try to arrange a sign and trade with OKC, continue stockpiling assets and looking for consolidating trades if that falls through, and target 2017 for free agency.

But didn't San Antonio effectively take option 2?

[Snooch]

Speculation, especially questionable with Carroll playing the same position as KD.

KD can do anything he wants offensively, and Demarre can easily guard sg or sf.

It is a very safe assumption to say the two of them will play VERY WELL together as Carroll is a 3 and d that can benefit from Durant drawing defenses, and KD can benefit from DC defending.

That is not speculation at all, that is pretty damn apparent. Carroll routinely guarded the more potent offensive player for the Hawks last season at either sg or sf, there is no reason to believe that he cannot do it again.

And KD is a legit superstar who is freakishly fast and long and can easily play against either shooting guards, small forwards or power forwards on the offensive side of the ball.

[mcHAPPY]

Well considering that this is a thread about Masai and his strategy (and not just another DD debate), I thought it was appropriate to ask the question, so I'll ask it again.

If you are Masai, do you:

Option 1 - keep the rest of the team intact and sacrifice DD (the risk would be he walks while we chase KD) to be able to show up to your sit down with KD with cap space in hand?

Option 2 - keep DD and go to the sit down with KD with a long list of trade ideas to moves players X, Y, Z to clear cap space (at the risk of gutting the team since return in those deals would be less than typical market value)?

For me, Option 1 is light years better than Option 2.

Option 1 makes more sense for your lineup (KD replaces DD's scoring vs a bunch of players/positions/skills).

Option 1 makes more sense from a sales point - "we insert you here with these players and this system" is more sound than "we put you here after trading these guys and hope to get player X & Y in return with player Z as a fall back".

If Option 1 utterly fails, then we sign a Batum/Henderson type and still have a full roster ready for next cap season target (Ibaka).

I know you know this but it is not even replacing his scoring, he adds to it, more efficiently, while also playing better defense, with more spacing, better rebounding, better play making.

If you straight up sub a healthy KD for DD on this team, my best guess is, you add anywhere from 8-15 more wins per season and you have a date with LeBron in the conference finals for a couple of years.

Jesus, I need to go breath in to a paper bag just thinking about this.