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Raptors vs Warriors 10:30PM EST

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  • consmap
    replied
    S.R. wrote: View Post
    Totally agree on the JV clear outs being awkward and forced. Also tough when the defender knows JV has no options and it's post ups or bust.

    Just clearing out the side is so unnecessary. A big needs space to post up, but if he gets the ball on the block he doesn't need half the court. Also you actually want defenders to cheat and start to double - that's how you open up the floor for your shooters. If a strong side perimeter defender ducks in to swipe at the ball, you kick it out to the perimeter. If the other big cheats across the key for a double, you get it to your other big for a layup. There are so many options that you're ruling out by clearing the floor. It's like the post version of an end-of-quarter-Lou play.
    There were a few times last year where they left one of the guards on the strong side when JV posted up (usually Vasquez), and he was able to find them for a good look from 3 if the defender helped.

    It will also help if JV isn't in good position and needs to repost.

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  • Puffer
    replied
    CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    ...Yes, but that's also the one play that stands out for the complete and utter lack of ball movement....
    That is my point. No one was open because they weren't doing anything to get open.

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  • Maury
    replied
    Raptors vs Warriors 10:30PM EST

    LJ2 wrote: View Post
    I don't recall the play you guys are talking about but did JV do anything with the ball or just receive and look to pass? It helps your teammates to find open lanes if JV creates open lanes by demanding the focus of the D and sucking them in. Otherwise it's just a one on one situation which is exactly what the Raptors want to exploit with JV in the post.
    I'm pretty sure they are talking about the play where Jonas got the ball at the top of the key with Deandre Jordan guarding him, and he looked around to pass for like 3 seconds and deandre just swiped at him and stripped him leading to a breakaway dunk. I thought JV was being stupid too until I watched the other players the next couple of times JV got the ball and they were all statues except DC a couple of times.


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  • S.R.
    replied
    Totally agree on the JV clear outs being awkward and forced. Also tough when the defender knows JV has no options and it's post ups or bust.

    Just clearing out the side is so unnecessary. A big needs space to post up, but if he gets the ball on the block he doesn't need half the court. Also you actually want defenders to cheat and start to double - that's how you open up the floor for your shooters. If a strong side perimeter defender ducks in to swipe at the ball, you kick it out to the perimeter. If the other big cheats across the key for a double, you get it to your other big for a layup. There are so many options that you're ruling out by clearing the floor. It's like the post version of an end-of-quarter-Lou play.

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  • CalgaryRapsFan
    replied
    LJ2 wrote: View Post
    I don't recall the play you guys are talking about but did JV do anything with the ball or just receive and look to pass? It helps your teammates to find open lanes if JV creates open lanes by demanding the focus of the D and sucking them in. Otherwise it's just a one on one situation which is exactly what the Raptors want to exploit with JV in the post.
    I'm talking about the one play where JV got the ball at about the foul line or just above it, and wound up getting stripped by Jordan, which lead to a fast-break dunk. It was a boneheaded play by JV, where he was so busy looking to make a play that he lost focus and forgot all about Jordan... any of us could have knocked the ball free. If he held the ball higher and/or with 2 hands, he likely wouldn't have lost it, even after falling asleep on the play.

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  • golden
    replied
    LOL. Coach Nick needs to give up tweeting and stick to stuff like this.

    This is playoff form...

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  • MixxAOR
    replied
    golden wrote: View Post
    Coach Nick still in pre-season mode, working his way into game shape. lol. Get that gawbage outta here!



    that's his mid-season form

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  • mcHAPPY
    replied
    Been some great comments in the last page or so.

    Nice.

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  • LJ2
    replied
    I don't recall the play you guys are talking about but did JV do anything with the ball or just receive and look to pass? It helps your teammates to find open lanes if JV creates open lanes by demanding the focus of the D and sucking them in. Otherwise it's just a one on one situation which is exactly what the Raptors want to exploit with JV in the post.

    Leave a comment:


  • CalgaryRapsFan
    replied
    Puffer wrote: View Post
    One play from the first game sticks in my mind. JV set the screen and subsequently received the ball. A I recall he looked to take the shot, and then looked around for someone to pass to when he didn't like the setup. There was no one open and as he kept looking around the ball got stolen.
    Yes, but that's also the one play that stands out for the complete and utter lack of ball movement. I yelled at JV for being slow and brain-dead during live action, but when they showed the replay, I realized that he was on the court with four statues. He still needs to have better focus and awareness, but it would also help to have an actual play to run and teammates that were engaged.

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  • Puffer
    replied
    CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    ...I think a lot of people who have called for more touches for JV do so thinking that he could ultimately fulfill that Bosh role (before Bosh started falling in love with mid-range jumpers). If more of the offense was run through JV, with plays actually drawn up for him to facilitate ball movement (ie: don't just give JV 4/5 clear-out opportunities per game and then completely ignore him), I think he could prove more than capable....
    One play from the first game sticks in my mind. JV set the screen and subsequently received the ball. A I recall he looked to take the shot, and then looked around for someone to pass to when he didn't like the setup. There was no one open and as he kept looking around the ball got stolen.

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  • A.I
    replied
    SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post
    A lot of that action was also predicated off (Bosh) isolation, but I know what you mean (pining for that offense is pretty drastic). Last year I think we did kick it out (to the weak side), then that player (GV, Lou, DeMar, Ross, Kyle) would either shoot or hold/dribble (then shoot or pass). Hopefully we'll see a lot more kickouts followed by swinging around the horn this year. It's pretty basketball, and those shots off the swing (seem to) hit so much more.

    Hopefully Carroll facilitates/necessitates that shift.
    CoJo too. Both of them come from amazing ball moving teams, Scola also but because of his high IQ. Hopefully it rubs off on the rest of the team.

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  • CalgaryRapsFan
    replied
    LJ2 wrote: View Post
    Calderon, Delfino and Parker were also 3 guys that could all hit a 3 point shot. You have to work with the personnel you have guys. It's easy to give Casey the blame, but you know ball movement only works if the team you are playing against respects your shooting. No need to defend on the perimeter if nobody is capable of making a shot right?
    First of all, you can have a lot more ball movement and a team-oriented system, even if you aren't reliant on multiple 3pt shooting threats. Second, I think the Raptors had plenty of 3pt threats last season, when you include Lowry, Ross, Patterson, Lou, and Vasquez. Amir also proved to be a capable 3pt shooter (in very small doses) and I wish DeRozan would have relied more on set 3pt shots from high % areas (ie: the corner), instead of taking so many forced long-2s (the worst shot in basketball). The only primary rotation players that weren't a 3pt threat were JV and JJ/Hansbrough.

    SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post
    A lot of that action was also predicated off (Bosh) isolation, but I know what you mean (pining for that offense is pretty drastic). Last year I think we did kick it out (to the weak side), then that player (GV, Lou, DeMar, Ross, Kyle) would either shoot or hold/dribble (then shoot or pass). Hopefully we'll see a lot more kickouts followed by swinging around the horn this year. It's pretty basketball, and those shots off the swing (seem to) hit so much more.

    Hopefully Carroll facilitates/necessitates that shift.
    I think a lot of people who have called for more touches for JV do so thinking that he could ultimately fulfill that Bosh role (before Bosh started falling in love with mid-range jumpers). If more of the offense was run through JV, with plays actually drawn up for him to facilitate ball movement (ie: don't just give JV 4/5 clear-out opportunities per game and then completely ignore him), I think he could prove more than capable.

    Patterson, Carroll, DeRozan and Lowry should all be perimeter threats, allowing the Raptors to utilize an inside-out offensive attack, with lots of ball movement. Involving JV doesn't simply mean give him more ISO attempts, but rather actually build an offensive system that utilizes him and makes him responsible for initiating offense both for himself and via inside-out ball movement. If plays were designed with lots of off-ball movement and picks to get perimeter guys open, when JV's primary options are to hit a cutter or find a man outside, that would only help both him and the team get better.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Wed Oct 7, 2015, 03:03 PM.

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  • SkywalkerAC
    replied
    CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Casey/DeRozan no-movement ISO-ball make me long for the days of Calderon, Delfino and Parker sharing the ball around the perimeter for open 3pt look after open 3pt look... and that alone is justification for a change! lol
    A lot of that action was also predicated off (Bosh) isolation, but I know what you mean (pining for that offense is pretty drastic). Last year I think we did kick it out (to the weak side), then that player (GV, Lou, DeMar, Ross, Kyle) would either shoot or hold/dribble (then shoot or pass). Hopefully we'll see a lot more kickouts followed by swinging around the horn this year. It's pretty basketball, and those shots off the swing (seem to) hit so much more.

    Hopefully Carroll facilitates/necessitates that shift.
    Last edited by SkywalkerAC; Wed Oct 7, 2015, 02:46 PM.

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  • grindhouse
    replied
    There was one year where demar scored most of his points off screens we should get back to that


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