Lucas Nogueira

[GLF]

They may feel that way. But a) the numbers don't bear that out (both lineups are similarly effective in terms of net rating, and a starting unit would be able to play much larger minutes than a bench unit, making the overallnet positive more valuable), and b) we saw exactly what happened last year when we still had that great bench but teams for the most part didn't play along and run out bench units against them for very long. The gains from the bench unit can't overcome losses from the starters when the minutes load shifts to 80%+ starters.

Point b is really good. In the playoffs teams don't play their benches for as long so our bench didn't dominate other teams like it did during the regular season. I honestly just want Sully back. Patterson starting is ideal but it won't happen. Casey isn't blind. You cant tell me that he doesn't see how bad our starting lineup is with Pascal, because if he didn't he wouldn't start Patterson in the third. So at this point I'll take anything, and a 70% Sully is better than a 100% Pascal at this point. And even if he isn't great individually he shouldn't hurt whatever lineup he's on as bad as Pascal does.

[DanH]

The other reason might be that Casey & staff feel that Lowry+Bench (sans DD) against other teams benches (with a fresh Pat) is a greater advantage that can be exploited than Lowry+DD+Pat as starters vs. other teams starters. DeRozan also creates a different dynamic in terms of ball movement and usage.

They may feel that way. But a) the numbers don't bear that out (both lineups are similarly effective in terms of net rating, and a starting unit would be able to play much larger minutes than a bench unit, making the overallnet positive more valuable), and b) we saw exactly what happened last year when we still had that great bench but teams for the most part didn't play along and run out bench units against them for very long. The gains from the bench unit can't overcome losses from the starters when the minutes load shifts to 80%+ starters.

[golden]

It's the only reason I can think of for not starting Patterson for the first 5-7 minutes of the game. Based on lineup usage, they clearly know Patterson lineups are better, but either they want to limit him to about 28 mpg for some reason we don't know about or they don't want to mess with rotations and they're using Siakam to hold down the spot that will eventually go to Sully? I don't know. Casey does seem to have a "don't mess with the lineups if the team is winning" propensity. Some coaches like to tinker.

The other reason might be that Casey & staff feel that Lowry+Bench (sans DD) against other teams benches (with a fresh Pat) is a greater advantage that can be exploited than Lowry+DD+Pat as starters vs. other teams starters. DeRozan also creates a different dynamic in terms of ball movement and usage.

[DanH]

It's the only reason I can think of for not starting Patterson for the first 5-7 minutes of the game. Based on lineup usage, they clearly know Patterson lineups are better, but either they want to limit him to about 28 mpg for some reason we don't know about or they don't want to mess with rotations and they're using Siakam to hold down the spot that will eventually go to Sully? I don't know. Casey does seem to have a "don't mess with the lineups if the team is winning" propensity. Some coaches like to tinker.

It's just weird. We assume it's because Casey doesn't want to mess with rotations, so much so that he'll start a completely unproven rookie like Siakam when the starter (Sully in this case) goes down. But if JV goes down, we start Biz instead of keeping him off the bench, no hesitation. If Carroll goes down, we start Ross for a long stretch. Seems like it's a rule that only applies to Patterson.

[S.R.]

Would still be better to start Pat, but if we are treating the rooks like placeholders, we've clearly burned through the first one. Next man up.

It's the only reason I can think of for not starting Patterson for the first 5-7 minutes of the game. Based on lineup usage, they clearly know Patterson lineups are better, but either they want to limit him to about 28 mpg for some reason we don't know about or they don't want to mess with rotations and they're using Siakam to hold down the spot that will eventually go to Sully? I don't know. Casey does seem to have a "don't mess with the lineups if the team is winning" propensity. Some coaches like to tinker.

[DanH]

I think Poeltl should be the placeholder from here on in. He's a better rebounder, better defender, and has equal spacing/range (zero)

Would still be better to start Pat, but if we are treating the rooks like placeholders, we've clearly burned through the first one. Next man up.

[KeonClark]

In a way it's too bad Siakam got off to a hot start and now seems to be the placeholder until Sully returns, Poeltl's the odd man out but I'd really like to see him getting some minutes for the sake of his development. I think he has the tools to be better than Bebe or Siakam. He's only been given one D-League game, he put up 21 and 15 with 6 ORB. He's in no man's land right now, being kept with the big club but not getting any burn.

I think Poeltl should be the placeholder from here on in. He's a better rebounder, better defender, and has equal spacing/range (zero)

[S.R.]

Also using Per 36 to gauge Bebe, is laughable. There is a reason why he isn't playing 36 minutes per game. Part of it is that we are guard heavy dominated team that is more effective being that way. The other part is that Bebe cannot create his own offense and normally tasked in defending and rebounding against other team bench players for the majority of his minutes. Bebe should be our 11-13 man that comes in certain situations like a JaVale McGee but not heavy minutes.

This is why in the long run Poeltl should be our guy as a back up big. Although he doesn't have the rim protection, or the play making ability of Bebe, he can be more creative offensively and can be more consistent player in the long run.

In a way it's too bad Siakam got off to a hot start and now seems to be the placeholder until Sully returns, Poeltl's the odd man out but I'd really like to see him getting some minutes for the sake of his development. I think he has the tools to be better than Bebe or Siakam. He's only been given one D-League game, he put up 21 and 15 with 6 ORB. He's in no man's land right now, being kept with the big club but not getting any burn.

[Hotshot]

Interesting that in their TPA all star list the only other big of the 10 players is Love.

Also using Per 36 to gauge Bebe, is laughable. There is a reason why he isn't playing 36 minutes per game. Part of it is that we are guard heavy dominated team that is more effective being that way. The other part is that Bebe cannot create his own offense and normally tasked in defending and rebounding against other team bench players for the majority of his minutes. Bebe should be our 11-13 man that comes in certain situations like a JaVale McGee but not heavy minutes.

This is why in the long run Poeltl should be our guy as a back up big. Although he doesn't have the rim protection, or the play making ability of Bebe, he can be more creative offensively and can be more consistent player in the long run.

[DogeLover1234]

http://nbamath.com/lucas-nogueira-be...ronto-raptors/

This is beyond sweet talking about BeBe, as article portrays him as the reason we are still "sniffing" CLE, based on new and still disputable metric (TPA).

Some nice points, but showing progress from prorated stats from previous years is using small samples to huge extend (he played in 6 games for total of 23 minutes in 14/15 season and in 29 games for total of 225 last season). Another thing that caught my eye is using per 36 minutes stats for rebounding, while his TRB% is only 13.5%, really bad for C.
Most of his minutes come on the floor with Patterson (80%) and Lowry (67%), whom one can argue are the most influential in terms of +/- and net rating for us. Another important thing is quality of opposition, numbers from nylon calculus are not yet available, but just look at time in the plays mentioned in the article. All of them are from end of 1st/3rd and first half of 2nd quarter, as BeBe plays mostly against bench lineups.

Interesting that in their TPA all star list the only other big of the 10 players is Love.

[Majesiu]

http://nbamath.com/lucas-nogueira-be...ronto-raptors/

This is beyond sweet talking about BeBe, as article portrays him as the reason we are still "sniffing" CLE, based on new and still disputable metric (TPA).

Some nice points, but showing progress from prorated stats from previous years is using small samples to huge extend (he played in 6 games for total of 23 minutes in 14/15 season and in 29 games for total of 225 last season). Another thing that caught my eye is using per 36 minutes stats for rebounding, while his TRB% is only 13.5%, really bad for C.
Most of his minutes come on the floor with Patterson (80%) and Lowry (67%), whom one can argue are the most influential in terms of +/- and net rating for us. Another important thing is quality of opposition, numbers from nylon calculus are not yet available, but just look at time in the plays mentioned in the article. All of them are from end of 1st/3rd and first half of 2nd quarter, as BeBe plays mostly against bench lineups.

[DanH]

True. I completely forgot about Biz taking his minutes, and him being injured when Biz was replacing the injured JV.

Ehhh, there was definitely a stretch where BeBe could have played more minutes as a backup to Biz before he got hurt as well, but got phased out. But overall, there certainly wasn't a huge opportunity last year.

[Puffer]

True. I completely forgot about Biz taking his minutes, and him being injured when Biz was replacing the injured JV.

[Hotshot]

I think 9O5 did help him stay ready and in good shape. I think injuries and Biz having a career year kept him on the bench last year though.

Combination of the two, yes. But also maturity, Bebe got married, got a child and stopped drinking and partying. He had that care-free attitude before and now seems more focused.

[Puffer]

[QUOTE=Chr1s1anL;704159]I think 9O5 did help him stay ready and in good shape. I think injuries and Biz having a career year kept him on the bench last year though.

Sent from my LG

True enough.