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Is Jonas now ready for "Prime-time"?

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  • Is Jonas now ready for "Prime-time"?

    We all know that Dwane Casey was much criticized, last season, for "slowing Jonas' development" by not playing him much during "crunch time" . And yet I sense that quite a few wonder if we should fully expect he'll "hit his stride", and so be ready to take those minutes, regularly, this season.

    My view would be that his 4-year contract, and the numbers agreed upon, might suggest that the organization has real confidence in Jonas ... but that the team - and quite possibly Jonas himself - feel he may need another year (even two?) of learning and growth.

    So before we blame Casey for ... whatever happens, and as the season begins ... what do you think/expect?
    22
    "Sink or Swim", baby - You can't learn to handle "crunch-time" if you don't play - and he's ready!
    81.82%
    18
    With better all-round defense, and with "Biz" in town, we can still ease Jonas into "Prime-Time".
    18.18%
    4
    Last edited by Wild-ling#1; Wed Oct 28th, 2015, 03:39 PM.

  • #2
    It has as much to do with how he's used as when he's used. You can't expect a player to develop without giving him an opportunity to put the practice to use in live game action (ie: low-post offense, foul-line/baseline jumper, passing out of the post, defending the basket, etc...). It also helps when the systems allow a player to play to his strengths, rather than magnify his weaknesses (ie: asking any rim-protecting big to regularly defend the perimeter).

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    • #3
      There are definite differences in accountability on the team with some guys who can do no wrong and others getting yanked ASAP or DNP-CD

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      • #4
        There are some who think that JV has been protected by the Raps - a young player who could be exposed/embarrassed in crunch time. Coach Jack Anderson insists that if JV felt he was being held-back (rather than protected) he'd let us know (and not by signing a team-friendly 4-year contract, obviously).

        And it seems, too, that there is significant doubt, having watched him in pre-season, that this is his year to become an all-star (which many/most expect ... just a matter of time, for some).

        So I could see Biz being a bridge to that much anticipated time, is all. But I'm not insisting ... and I'm curious what others think will/should happen.

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        • #5
          Wild-ling#1 wrote: View Post
          There are some who think that JV has been protected by the Raps - a young player who could be exposed/embarrassed in crunch time. Coach Jack Anderson insists that if JV felt he was being held-back (rather than protected) he'd let us know (and not by signing a team-friendly 4-year contract, obviously).

          And it seems, too, that there is significant doubt, having watched him in pre-season, that this is his year to become an all-star (which many/most expect ... just a matter of time, for some).

          So I could see Biz being a bridge to that much anticipated time, is all. But I'm not insisting ... and I'm curious what others think will/should happen.
          It was a waste to play JV in crunch-time last year, but mostly because of the systems.

          The guard-centric ISO offense turned him into a garbage-man used to clean-up the boards and set picks.

          The scramble style defense turned an old-school rim protector into a cement-footed help defender (remember, Casey even said that all-world defender Chandler would struggle in their defensive system), who would all too often be hung out to dry on rotations (defending 2-on-1 from the foul line in) and out of position for defensive rebounding.

          It made more sense that more mobile bigs (ie: Amir, PP, or even JJ) should play. When it comes to a 'systems VS player' discussion, I see JV's lack of impact last season as being a correlation rather than a causation; not everyone agrees.

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          • #6
            I like the phrasing in your poll and I picked "Sink or Swim." He still has a lot to learn and will make mistakes, but at this point it makes the most sense to give him the experience and develop him by giving him key minutes and more responsibility. If he progresses and steps up to the plate, then great - you have a core piece moving forward. If he hits a ceiling you scale your expectations back a bit and you still have a guy who can contribute on a Gortat or even Asik level, at the very least.
            "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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            • #7
              So - assuming he's not asked to help with perimeter defense - you're not worried he'll be exposed by other teams' systems and 4's, 5's? (I'm just looking for insights here ... can't wait for the game).

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              • #8
                Wild-ling#1 wrote: View Post
                So - assuming he's not asked to help with perimeter defense - you're not worried he'll be exposed by other teams' systems and 4's, 5's? (I'm just looking for insights here ... can't wait for the game).
                One of the best descriptions I've seen for what natural limitations I see so far was "slow feet." Is he reacting and rotating a bit slowly because of lack of experience and a poor fit with the system? Or does he look a step slow on defense because he's just a step slow? That's the kind of thing I think we need to find out through playing time. I'm hoping it's the latter, obviously, and that experience and a better fit help him out.

                Offensively his post game is fine and still developing (the stats really counter criticisms about that), his passing/court awareness looks like a gap, but you end up in the same situation as I just described on D - is it a natural limitation or will experience and better fit help?

                Even with all that I think it's pretty safe to say he can be a top 10 centre for years to come. Anytime you've got a young guy who can be top 10 at his position, you're doing pretty well.
                "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                • #9
                  Wild-ling#1 wrote: View Post
                  So - assuming he's not asked to help with perimeter defense - you're not worried he'll be exposed by other teams' systems and 4's, 5's? (I'm just looking for insights here ... can't wait for the game).
                  Well, if he's exposed by an offensive system, then likely it's a system problem. I don't really know what you mean there. For instance, one of the most annoying things would be criticism he got over lapses in the p'n'r D. But now they're changing the system so they don't don't constantly concede the lane and the 2-on-1 that comes with our guards always getting trapped on the screen. No C would look good there. There's only so much a C can do in certain situations, and they're not actually meant to correct for every mistake the team makes. So I'd need a better understanding of what you might mean by being exposed by a system.

                  I'm not too worried about 5s. Jonas isn't bad defensively one on one. If he has to guard another interior player, he usually holds his own plus he makes them work on the glass and on D (if we give him touches).

                  4s can be an issue, especially stretch 4s (or I guess the rare stretch 5 as well). But that's a problem for most Cs. Bigs are not comfortable playing that far out, even if they're as athletic as a DeAndre. You try to avoid that matchup. It's bound to happen sometimes though. Might be a situation where you try to hide him on a worse shooter/scorer if possible. However we've seen him do alright against more old school 4s who play inside. One example is we'd usually crossmatch against Memphis because Gasol is a bit more of a mid-post/face up guy and Randolph more a bruiser, so we'd put Amir on Gasol and JV on Randolph and it was usually the best combo for making things tough on them.

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                  • #10
                    Honestly, I'm not perfectly sure what I'm asking either ... which is kinda' why I'm asking (if you dig)

                    But I'm sure pulling for him. I just like the guy. And I believe in his potential.

                    (I don't know why we can't see who voted for which option. Musta' goofed that

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                    • #11
                      I put sink or swim, because if he's struggling I'd rather know that at least he was given opportunity for some time. I'd probably throw him in a larger role for the first 30ish games, see if he makes progress, and then pull back or give more leash depending. The earlier you start being able to really evaluate him, the easier it gets to make adjustments through the season since game reps are the best opportunity to evaluate his progress.

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                      • #12
                        I don't think there is any particular need to force the issue with JV in terms of force-feeding him the ball or crunch time minutes, etc. At the same time, they can't try and protect him anymore or take him out in winning time. He's either a key piece of the team or he isn't. If he is, then he needs to have the opportunity to fail cause if he doesn't then he'll never succeed. If he isn't, then they should move him for different assets.

                        There's been way too much angst about an issue that isn't really all that complicated....

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                        • #13
                          slaw wrote: View Post
                          I don't think there is any particular need to force the issue with JV in terms of force-feeding him the ball or crunch time minutes, etc. At the same time, they can't try and protect him anymore or take him out in winning time. He's either a key piece of the team or he isn't. If he is, then he needs to have the opportunity to fail cause if he doesn't then he'll never succeed. If he isn't, then they should move him for different assets.

                          There's been way too much angst about an issue that isn't really all that complicated....
                          I don't think it's about force-feeding him the ball, but to a certain degree "giving" him crunch time minutes because of how it relates to seeing how he does at winning time. And part of that is if they're going to throw him out there, they better utilize him. There were more than a few games last year where he'd get some 4th quarter minutes. Do rim runs for 3-4 minutes while really not being involved in the game, and then get pulled. If he's going to be out there, he's gotta get some opportunity to be part of what they're doing.

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                          • #14
                            My analogy here goes to boxing. There is rarely anything to be gained by matching your young, sublimely talented fighter up against a mature, talented and seasoned pro who's likely to batter and humiliate your young guy. (There have been fighters where there was no such worry. Tyson was one - won most early fights, against real opposition, by knock-out - in under 90 seconds. Truly awesome. Ali was just stupid quick ... and smart. And supremely confident.).

                            I take your points about systems and situations being important ... and about giving JV a chance to fail ... to a point. But he's still young for a "big". I'm interested to see what he can do, of course. But wonder if Casey has been right to go easy ... and might still be wise to do so ... pressure from the fans be damned. (?)

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                            • #15
                              Wild-ling#1 wrote: View Post
                              My analogy here goes to boxing. There is rarely anything to be gained by matching your young, sublimely talented fighter up against a mature, talented and seasoned pro who's likely to batter and humiliate your young guy. (There have been fighters where there was no such worry. Tyson was one - won most early fights, against real opposition, by knock-out - in under 90 seconds. Truly awesome. Ali was just stupid quick ... and smart. And supremely confident.).

                              I take your points about systems and situations being important ... and about giving JV a chance to fail ... to a point. But he's still young for a "big". I'm interested to see what he can do, of course. But wonder if Casey has been right to go easy ... and might still be wise to do so ... pressure from the fans be damned. (?)
                              I think he's already proven that he can succeed in limited minutes and against inferior opposition. He's also proven (during FIBA) that he's able to assume a bigger role with greater responsibility.

                              At some point the training wheels need to come off and, if you think you have a prize fighter in your corner, you have to let him duke it out with the big boys.

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