Game #9 - Toronto Raptors 119 - Philadelphia 76ers 103

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Simplest approach

Starting:
Every Scola possession is a possession away from JV.

Bench
Every Scola possession is a possession away from PP or Biyombo.

Starters: short on 3pt shooting (Carroll - injured & Lowry)

Bench: short on interior play (Biyombo - useless)


I would love to see Joseph and Scola playing together, picking apart backup defenders. Along with a healthy early-season Ross, that could become a lethal threesome (with Biyombo for defense & rebounding and JJ for off-ball play & rebounding).

[Joey]

Never said you did. My comment was in direct response to someone who did though.

I agree that Scola offers a lot of benefits to JV and that Patterson has been awful. Both are irrelevant though.

Scola can still mentor JV in practices, warm-ups, travel days and 4th quarters. We can both surely agree that a player doesn't need to start to be a mentor?

The 2nd unit lacks scoring options as a whole - let alone shooters. Cojo can score. Ross is inconsistent and really best suited to play a catch and shoot outlet role. Biyombo is well documented. The back-up SF has been Bennett, JJ & Powell mostly - do you really want to put any pressure on that group to produce as the 2nd option? Scola would benefit the team more by raising the level of the bench immensely rather than being just the 4th/5th option with the starters - a role that PP can produce in and may be the jump start that is needed to get him going.

Ok, now I see the point. It wasn't a matter of improving the Starting Lineup, but offering more punch to the Bench.

Gotcha.

With this I do agree that Scola could offer the bench a much needed relief, however, I think if Patterson can regain his old form, he offers that relief and punch in a much more appropriate package (athletic, can shoot, can slash a little). But at this rate, I think inserting his sorry self into the Starting Lineup will drag that group down. The Starting Unit has really used Scola, and if we lose those points from that Unit, its either putting more pressure on Demar and Lowry to score, or putting that unwanted pressure on the bench again to dig us out of holes.

[Wild-ling#1]

Starters: short on 3pt shooting (Carroll - injured & Lowry)

Bench: short on interior play (Biyombo - useless)


I would love to see Joseph and Scola playing together, picking apart backup defenders. Along with a healthy early-season Ross, that could become a lethal threesome (with Biyombo for defense & rebounding and JJ for off-ball play & rebounding).

your argument is a good one, I think. But I guess the coaches like Scola's rebounding and scoring with the starters ... are are (currently) resigned to having a relatively weak-scoring bench, which can defend, with the injuries (and Patterson not doing anything much).

And they're not doing "hockey changes" anyway, so there's more flexibility with the rotations and "looks" they're giving other teams. I guess that's the way they're figuring it. Not sure I'm right, but they must figure it differently somehow (precisely because what you and Dan and Axel makes real sense on the face of it).

But there's always the "Casey's an idiot" explanation, of course.

[Axel]

Ok, now I see the point. It wasn't a matter of improving the Starting Lineup, but offering more punch to the Bench.

Gotcha.

With this I do agree that Scola could offer the bench a much needed relief, however, I think if Patterson can regain his old form, he offers that relief and punch in a much more appropriate package (athletic, can shoot, can slash a little). But at this rate, I think inserting his sorry self into the Starting Lineup will drag that group down. The Starting Unit has really used Scola, and if we lose those points from that Unit, its either putting more pressure on Demar and Lowry to score, or putting that unwanted pressure on the bench again to dig us out of holes.

Those Scola possessions can go to JV.

Scola is averaging 8.7 FGA per game to JVs 9.1.

Scola also has a higher Usage.

Is Scola better than JV? Then maximize all of their talents.

[Joey]

Those Scola possessions can go to JV.

Scola is averaging 8.7 FGA per game to JVs 9.1.

Scola also has a higher Usage.

Is Scola better than JV? Then maximize all of their talents.

But the way Scola scores is completely different than how JV scores. Scola is crafty and relies on finesse and being smarter than guys. JV is a brute, a highly talented brute at that, but a brute none-the-less, who relies on being bigger and stronger than guys to get his. Not only that, Scola is one of the best passing bigs in the league (which I imagine is where that higher usage comes from) and has made more than a few great big-to-big passes to JV. I don't think we'd see that nearly as much with PP, as he'd be floating outside the 3 point line most of the time.

[raptors999]

But the way Scola scores is completely different than how JV scores. Scola is crafty and relies on finesse and being smarter than guys. JV is a brute, a highly talented brute at that, but a brute none-the-less, who relies on being bigger and stronger than guys to get his. Not only that, Scola is one of the best passing bigs in the league (which I imagine is where that higher usage comes from) and has made more than a few great big-to-big passes to JV. I don't think we'd see that nearly as much with PP, as he'd be floating outside the 3 point line most of the time.

CoJo is better at feeding JV than either KL or Demar who don't like to do it either. If they use JJ as a 3 he is as good feed JV as Scola would be. Gay fed bigs for a reason, big SF have an advantage

[OldSkoolCool]

Starting Patterson over Scola is such a no-brainer basketball to me

Ive given up trying to understand why Casey does Casey things

[raptors999]

Starting Patterson over Scola is such a no-brainer basketball to me

Ive given up trying to understand why Casey does Casey things

Casey thinks in terms of starter, bench, star etc. He doesn't get big picture stuff

[white men can't jump]

But the way Scola scores is completely different than how JV scores. Scola is crafty and relies on finesse and being smarter than guys. JV is a brute, a highly talented brute at that, but a brute none-the-less, who relies on being bigger and stronger than guys to get his. Not only that, Scola is one of the best passing bigs in the league (which I imagine is where that higher usage comes from) and has made more than a few great big-to-big passes to JV. I don't think we'd see that nearly as much with PP, as he'd be floating outside the 3 point line most of the time.

Usage doesn't include passing. Scola's is higher because he does get more shots than JV, he just plays less minutes so the FGAs don't make that so obvious.

And his passing would be more useful on the 2nd unit, where we have less guys capable of creating a bucket for themselves.

Meanwhile we also need JV to improve his awareness and passing from the post. Scola is not as effective as he once was...basically all around, and there's no reason JV shouldn't be getting the reps instead. It's not like Scola has actually been that steady. He's had some awful shots and turnovers from the post, where he's clearly just trying to do more than he can (at least anymore).

[slaw]

Are both lineups maximized with Scola starting and Patterson coming off the bench? Not a chance. No evidence to prove either side of the argument, since we've only seen Scola starting so far.

I'm not sure how you can answer the first question with the 100% definitive, 'not a chance', and in the next sentence write that no evidence exists to prove either side of the argument. Since there is no evidence people may want to be a little more cautious and humble in their declarations.... both ways.

We are 9 games in. 73 to go. Small. Sample. Size. A lot will happen, including Patterson coming out of this terrible shooting slump he is in. At some point we'll see him with the starters and that may or may not make a material difference in terms of wins and losses but it's such a non-issue at the moment, especially given Patterson's awful play.

The most important issue is the Raps defense which has seemingly collapsed the last two games without Carroll. They can have all the spacing and ball movement in the world but giving up 100+ to both the freaking Knicks and Sixers bodes ill for winning games.

[Wild-ling#1]

I've never argued that starting Scola was a defensive move .. and I never will. Lol It wasn't, in my opinion.
What it does do, is puts a solid, experienced Vet beside JV, who can help show him the ropes and help put in the right spot when he starts wondering and getting lost (as JV has been wont to do).

Patterson offers nothing to the starting lineup that we don't get already get from Scola, in my opinion. Scola is 5 for 10 from 3 this season, so he can obviously step out and hit the 3 if we wanted to, or was asked to by Casey.

And taking PP away from the bench unit leaves them without any real shooters at all. Even though PP hasn't really proven to be a "shooter" this year.

So can you offer a theory as to why the coaches aren't playing Scola with the 2nd unit, to balance the scoring?

(I've basically suggested that Patterson has been so ineffective - thus far mind - that they're basically resigned to having a less effective bench than they'd like. It's not much of a theory ... but ... well ... "fuck-you!"*)

(*Eric Idle, The Meaning of Life parody )

[Snooch]

Biyombo gets lots of shots

lol

[Just Is]

Casey thinks in terms of starter, bench, star etc. He doesn't get big picture stuff

That's not fair; he doesn't seem to get little picture stuff either.

[Joey]

Usage doesn't include passing. Scola's is higher because he does get more shots than JV, he just plays less minutes so the FGAs don't make that so obvious.

Pretty sure Usage includes Passes that end with an Assist, no?
And I'm not arguing Scola should be shooting, or used, as much as he is, but I don't think moving PP into the Starting lineup really changes much with how Casey will use JV.

And his passing would be more useful on the 2nd unit, where we have less guys capable of creating a bucket for themselves.

But the bench also has CoJo, who is the most pass oriented we have on the team, who does a great job of favilitating the bench, in my opinion.

Meanwhile we also need JV to improve his awareness and passing from the post. Scola is not as effective as he once was...basically all around, and there's no reason JV shouldn't be getting the reps instead. It's not like Scola has actually been that steady. He's had some awful shots and turnovers from the post, where he's clearly just trying to do more than he can (at least anymore).

Again, not arguing in favour of Scola's usage, just simply saying that moving PP to the starting lineup wouldn't change as much with the team as many are claiming. I think what will really help everyone on the team, is if PP starts hitting his shots. Moving into the starting rotation, where he hasn't historically performed that well, might not be the best thing for him right now. But thats just me.

[Axel]

Pretty sure Usage includes Passes that end with an Assist, no?
And I'm not arguing Scola should be shooting, or used, as much as he is, but I don't think moving PP into the Starting lineup really changes much with how Casey will use JV.

According to BBRef glossary:

"Usg% Usage Percentage (available since the 1977-78 season in the NBA); the formula is 100 * ((FGA + 0.44 * FTA + TOV) * (Tm MP / 5)) / (MP * (Tm FGA + 0.44 * Tm FTA + Tm TOV)). Usage percentage is an estimate of the percentage of team plays used by a player while he was on the floor. "

No mention of assists.