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Game #11: Toronto Raptors 101 - Sacramento Kings 107

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  • tDotted wrote: View Post
    Oh my god man, stop this "we're only X amount of games in".

    This is the 4th straight year of JV playing under 30 minutes a game. This is Casey's 5th season with the team. We are not 11 games in, we're actually about 234 games in.

    JV has played 30 or more minutes 83 times... out of a possible 234 games. So about 35% of the time in his career (hey, that's Caseyball efficency).
    Would you consider that maybe our boy isn't as good or polished enough to play more minutes than he is...
    His ability to catch the ball in traffic still needs to get better... his offensive game while improving year to year is still not good enough to have the offense run through him ... his court vision in the passing game is still developing.
    Would he have been a better choice to try to close out Sacto ? Given 20/20 hindsight it kinda looks that way.. but if we get even 12 points on offense and get a couple of stops and hold Sacto to a very do-able 18 pts in 7 minutes Raps win and this conversation doesn't happen.

    I get it.. Caseys' not your guy.. not your choice... just keep an open mind and be less dogmatic in the mantra that whatever the problem is .. Casey is the reason for it.
    And with the 4th overall pick the Toronto Raptors select..... Scottie Barnes.

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    • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
      Would you consider that maybe our boy isn't as good or polished enough to play more minutes than he is...
      His ability to catch the ball in traffic still needs to get better... his offensive game while improving year to year is still not good enough to have the offense run through him ... his court vision in the passing game is still developing.
      Would he have been a better choice to try to close out Sacto ? Given 20/20 hindsight it kinda looks that way.. but if we get even 12 points on offense and get a couple of stops and hold Sacto to a very do-able 18 pts in 7 minutes Raps win and this conversation doesn't happen.

      I get it.. Caseys' not your guy.. not your choice... just keep an open mind and be less dogmatic in the mantra that whatever the problem is .. Casey is the reason for it.
      I just considered it, and logic was lolnope why the fuck wouldn't you play one pf your best players more?

      Even if Drummond deserves those kinds of minutes more, or even if Drummond is better, does it really mean you tell one of your best players "hey you suck in comparison to this guy, so you don't deserve the same amount of minutes". It sounds absolutely insane. It's like Frank Vogel telling Paul George "hey you suck compared to LeBron, we're gonna play you around 30 MPG instead", or telling Terry Stotts telling Damian Lillard "you suck compared to Steph Curry, we're gonna play you around 25 MPG instead", it's absolutely stupid.

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      • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
        Would you consider that maybe our boy isn't as good or polished enough to play more minutes than he is...
        His ability to catch the ball in traffic still needs to get better... his offensive game while improving year to year is still not good enough to have the offense run through him ... his court vision in the passing game is still developing.
        Would he have been a better choice to try to close out Sacto ? Given 20/20 hindsight it kinda looks that way.. but if we get even 12 points on offense and get a couple of stops and hold Sacto to a very do-able 18 pts in 7 minutes Raps win and this conversation doesn't happen.

        I get it.. Caseys' not your guy.. not your choice... just keep an open mind and be less dogmatic in the mantra that whatever the problem is .. Casey is the reason for it.
        Off course he has to improve in certain areas. That's not the point. Playing Biz over Jonas is the point. Playing Biz for 18 straight minutes is the point. So far, Raptors are better with Jonas on both ends of the floor than without him.
        MeDar ReDozan

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        • tDotted wrote: View Post
          Oh my god man, stop this "we're only X amount of games in".

          This is the 4th straight year of JV playing under 30 minutes a game. This is Casey's 5th season with the team. We are not 11 games in, we're actually about 234 games in.

          JV has played 30 or more minutes 83 times... out of a possible 234 games. So about 35% of the time in his career (hey, that's Caseyball efficency).
          Good Post fam.

          Comment


          • Mindlessness wrote: View Post
            I just considered it, and logic was lolnope why the fuck wouldn't you play one pf your best players more?

            Even if Drummond deserves those kinds of minutes more, or even if Drummond is better, does it really mean you tell one of your best players "hey you suck in comparison to this guy, so you don't deserve the same amount of minutes". It sounds absolutely insane. It's like Frank Vogel telling Paul George "hey you suck compared to LeBron, we're gonna play you around 30 MPG instead", or telling Terry Stotts telling Damian Lillard "you suck compared to Steph Curry, we're gonna play you around 25 MPG instead", it's absolutely stupid.
            He plays 28 Mins per game .. 11 games in....
            For compares here is what other C's are getting... other than Drummond.. he seems to play as much as everyone else.
            Horford plays 31
            P.Gasol plays 30
            Mozgov plays 21
            Whiteside plays 29
            Drummond plays 37
            D Jordan plays 31
            M.Gasol plays 32
            Towns plays 29
            Okafor plays 33
            Gortat plays 27
            Vucevic plays 31
            Duncan plays 27
            Howard plays 31

            Looks like he is about 2 minutes short of average..
            2 minutes .... Do you think its reasonable to expect that he would change the course of every game with 2 more minutes ? You seem convinced it would be. I just remain a little more skeptical than you on the impact two more minutes of floor time would have.
            Last edited by Demographic Shift; Mon Nov 16, 2015, 09:51 PM.
            And with the 4th overall pick the Toronto Raptors select..... Scottie Barnes.

            Comment


            • Henry_Chinaski wrote: View Post
              Off course he has to improve in certain areas. That's not the point. Playing Biz over Jonas is the point. Playing Biz for 18 straight minutes is the point. So far, Raptors are better with Jonas on both ends of the floor than without him.
              I tried to cover why that might have happened with my post 544. Why Biz played out the game while JV ate pine.
              And with the 4th overall pick the Toronto Raptors select..... Scottie Barnes.

              Comment


              • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
                He plays 28 Mins per game .. 11 games in....
                For compares here is what other C's are getting... other than Drummond.. he seems to play as much as everyone else.
                Horford plays 31
                P.Gasol plays 30
                Mozgov plays 21
                Whiteside plays 29
                Drummond plays 37
                D Jordan plays 31
                M.Gasol plays 32
                Towns plays 29
                Okafor plays 33
                Gortat plays 27
                Vucevic plays 31
                Duncan plays 27
                Howard plays 31

                Looks like he is about 2 minutes short of average..
                2 minutes .... Do you think its reasonable to expect that he would change the course of every game with 2 more minutes ? You seem convinced it would be. I just remain a little more skeptical than you on the impact two more minutes of floor time would have.
                get that reality out of here

                Comment


                • The Celtics are now 6-4.
                  Mamba Mentality

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                  • Bonus Jonas wrote: View Post
                    After that game I'd be fine with a Demar trade.
                    ZBo

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                    • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
                      Would you consider that maybe our boy isn't as good or polished enough to play more minutes than he is...
                      His ability to catch the ball in traffic still needs to get better... his offensive game while improving year to year is still not good enough to have the offense run through him ... his court vision in the passing game is still developing.
                      Would he have been a better choice to try to close out Sacto ? Given 20/20 hindsight it kinda looks that way.. but if we get even 12 points on offense and get a couple of stops and hold Sacto to a very do-able 18 pts in 7 minutes Raps win and this conversation doesn't happen.

                      I get it.. Caseys' not your guy.. not your choice... just keep an open mind and be less dogmatic in the mantra that whatever the problem is .. Casey is the reason for it.
                      Even if all that is considered, he's still MILES MILES better than Biyombo. That is the point. That is why Casey is such an idiot.
                      "Stay steamy"

                      - Kobe

                      Comment


                      • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
                        He plays 28 Mins per game .. 11 games in....
                        For compares here is what other C's are getting... other than Drummond.. he seems to play as much as everyone else.
                        Horford plays 31
                        P.Gasol plays 30
                        Mozgov plays 21
                        Whiteside plays 29
                        Drummond plays 37
                        D Jordan plays 31
                        M.Gasol plays 32
                        Towns plays 29
                        Okafor plays 33
                        Gortat plays 27
                        Vucevic plays 31
                        Duncan plays 27
                        Howard plays 31

                        Looks like he is about 2 minutes short of average..
                        2 minutes .... Do you think its reasonable to expect that he would change the course of every game with 2 more minutes ? You seem convinced it would be. I just remain a little more skeptical than you on the impact two more minutes of floor time would have.
                        The thing about your list demo, is that you should put all the centers that start!!! as an example:

                        Brook Lopez Nets 34.5 Minutes

                        Nerlen Noels Philli 32.5 Minutes


                        Greg Monroe Detroit 34 Minutes


                        Rudy Gobert Utah 34 minutes








                        Add those Centers to the list of Centers that You posted! and you have 12 Twelve centers that avg 30+ minutes...Why is Val an 22-23 year old one of the best Percent centers repping Less then These guys as Good as they are...Val is a Prodigy! we have 2 Prodigy's and 2 Hard workers that make themselves top 5 Reppers for there positions from HARDWORK!!! Why is coach Casey not allowing this team as Deep as GoldenState Warriors!!! not allowing to Use all there Teammates..WHY RUN ISO, ON A TEAM AS DEEP AND HEAVY AS THIS???

                        Had to edit the post because some of the Reppers were already stated from demo..

                        Credit S.R. for doing dat dere
                        Last edited by CB4Champ; Tue Nov 17, 2015, 04:32 AM.

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                        • At least we're not the Rockets?

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                          • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
                            He plays 28 Mins per game .. 11 games in....
                            For compares here is what other C's are getting... other than Drummond.. he seems to play as much as everyone else.
                            Horford plays 31
                            P.Gasol plays 30
                            Mozgov plays 21
                            Whiteside plays 29
                            Drummond plays 37
                            D Jordan plays 31
                            M.Gasol plays 32
                            Towns plays 29
                            Okafor plays 33
                            Gortat plays 27
                            Vucevic plays 31
                            Duncan plays 27
                            Howard plays 31

                            Looks like he is about 2 minutes short of average..
                            2 minutes .... Do you think its reasonable to expect that he would change the course of every game with 2 more minutes ? You seem convinced it would be. I just remain a little more skeptical than you on the impact two more minutes of floor time would have.
                            Quite a few of those guys have a legit PF/C teammate who shares their minutes. Duncan is playing with LMA, Marc Gasol is playing with Z-Bo, Gortat is playing with Nene, Jordan is playing with Griffin, Okafor is playing with Noel, etc. JV is playing with...Biyombo and Scola. Biyombo is a career bench player and Scola had lost his starting spot before coming here to a team with no starting PF. JV is better than both those guys by quite a bit on most metrics - pick your stat. JV has been MILES better than Biyombo in 4th quarters, and it's not even close (https://twitter.com/JLew1050/status/666131966689976320).

                            Also, a number of those C's see reduced minutes because they can't shoot FT's and have to sit late in tight games. JV currently has the 4th highest FG% in the entire NBA and the three guys ahead of him - Jordan, Howard, and Whiteside - can't shoot free throws. Jonas shoots FT's at a .778% clip. He's a centre you can close games with.

                            From Ryan Wolstat:
                            "With Biyombo on, Sacramento was able to play 5-on-4 defensively against what had been a torrid Toronto offence. The shots became tougher to make, the three-pointers more contested and to top it off, Biyombo, in for his defence, got obliterated by Cousins repeatedly.
                            Part of it was Cousins is really good, part of it was the referees letting Cousins do whatever he wanted and part of it probably was Biyombo simply playing too many minutes. He’s a guy who has always played limited minutes, largely because of foul trouble, but he was out there for a long stretch. Against a 270-pound wrecking ball like Cousins, those minutes start to feel even longer.

                            As colleague Eric Koreen pointed out, Toronto’s defensive rating with Biyombo on the floor is actually a lot worse (103.8 points allowed per 100 possessions) compared to when Valanciunas is on the floor (96.6)."
                            http://blogs.canoe.com/courtside/bas...udy-gay-trade/
                            Last edited by S.R.; Tue Nov 17, 2015, 02:19 AM.
                            "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                            • hotfuzz wrote: View Post
                              Even if all that is considered, he's still MILES MILES better than Biyombo. That is the point. That is why Casey is such an idiot.
                              Yeah, seems to be a case of missing the forest through the trees.

                              Also:





                              Comment


                              • Miekenstien wrote: View Post
                                get that reality out of here
                                Not really reality. Going against the stream yes, but that doesn't make any of his points correct. Reality is, playing any player, especially a back up player, for 18 consecutive minutes is a poor decision.

                                Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
                                Would you consider that maybe our boy isn't as good or polished enough to play more minutes than he is...
                                His ability to catch the ball in traffic still needs to get better... his offensive game while improving year to year is still not good enough to have the offense run through him ... his court vision in the passing game is still developing.
                                Would he have been a better choice to try to close out Sacto ? Given 20/20 hindsight it kinda looks that way.. but if we get even 12 points on offense and get a couple of stops and hold Sacto to a very do-able 18 pts in 7 minutes Raps win and this conversation doesn't happen.

                                I get it.. Caseys' not your guy.. not your choice... just keep an open mind and be less dogmatic in the mantra that whatever the problem is .. Casey is the reason for it.
                                This hindsight line is a complete cop out. If Casey had announced this plan before the game or at half-time, it would have been immediately met with disagreement for specific reasons:

                                - Biyombo's lack of offence makes the defence focus more on his teammates
                                - Biyombo's defensive production isn't better than JV's enough to off-set the lost offence
                                - JV is the future of this team and needs to play in these situations

                                All of these items have been discussed here on the forum BEFORE the game. All hindsight has provided us in this case is the final score, but the result was very predictable. A capable coach should have been able to predict this because many fans would have predicted it.

                                If you want to defend Casey, that is fully within your rights, but don't insult our intelligence by pretending that what Casey did wrong was only obvious with hindsight.

                                If we take everything you have said to be true, then it still at least demonstrates that Casey has poor judgement, because it was clearly the wrong call.

                                There are enough reasons for a team to lose a basketball game that we don't need to add "coach stupidity" working against us.
                                Last edited by Axel; Tue Nov 17, 2015, 09:44 AM.
                                Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                                If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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