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  • #16
    Snooch wrote: View Post
    The entire other core is not ready imo. As evidenced by their insistence on playing the exact style of basketball that g9t them embarrassed last to playoffs
    Is it "insistence"? Or is simply doing what their Coach tells them to?

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    • #17
      Joey wrote: View Post
      Is it "insistence"? Or is simply doing what their Coach tells them to?
      Bit of both i would guess

      Demar and lowry both played the same way under different coaches...soo...

      And their first instinct when things get tough is to go back into hero mode.

      I think its more then than coach. For as bad as casey i dont think this one rests entirely on him.

      I think his fault is telling them they are scorers and to go ahead and score.....they chose the way to do it.

      Sent from my LG-D852 using Tapatalk

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      • #18
        Joey wrote: View Post
        Is it "insistence"? Or is simply doing what their Coach tells them to?
        I've been mulling this in my head today...the chicken or the egg...coach or player...everyone's quick to say they're just following Casey's marching orders, but reading between the lines on Carroll and Casey post game, I get the sense Demar and kyle just go rogue when they feel like it.

        Also, as bad as casey is, it seems more likely a player with an ego thinks Iso is the best play than it is for a coach to go "fuck what's been working, let's go street ball guys"
        It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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        • #19
          Snooch wrote: View Post
          Bit of both i would guess

          Demar and lowry both played the same way under different coaches...soo...

          And their first instinct when things get tough is to go back into hero mode.

          I think its more then than coach. For as bad as casey i dont think this one rests entirely on him.

          I think his fault is telling them they are scorers and to go ahead and score.....they chose the way to do it.

          Sent from my LG-D852 using Tapatalk
          Its Casey's fault. He gives them the freedom to do whatever they want without holding them accountable. If it was Thibs or another coach, both of their asses would be on the bench for some the shots they take.

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          • #20
            KeonClark wrote: View Post
            I've been mulling this in my head today...the chicken or the egg...coach or player...everyone's quick to say they're just following Casey's marching orders, but reading between the lines on Carroll and Casey post game, I get the sense Demar and kyle just go rogue when they feel like it.

            Also, as bad as casey is, it seems more likely a player with an ego thinks Iso is the best play than it is for a coach to go "fuck what's been working, let's go street ball guys"
            Even if that's the case, I think the coach should be blamed along with the players, for not holding them accountable.

            I get the feeling that's why there's a growing sentiment about rebuilding without all three of them, just to get a fresh start and a new culture both in the dressing room and on the court.

            We seriously need to bug MU's phone or office, because I'd really like to know what's going through his mind to formulate his strategy for the next season or two.

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            • #21
              Snooch wrote: View Post
              Bit of both i would guess

              Demar and lowry both played the same way under different coaches...soo...

              And their first instinct when things get tough is to go back into hero mode.

              I think its more then than coach. For as bad as casey i dont think this one rests entirely on him.

              I think his fault is telling them they are scorers and to go ahead and score.....they chose the way to do it.
              The only other coach Demar has had is Jay Triano.... not exactly a great starting off point. Lol

              Not making excuses, just simply saying that with a good coach that put Demar in the proper situations to take advantage of his skills while minimizing his weaknesses.. instead of the exact opposite, I think Demar could be everything you guys hope and dream for. And he's certainly shown plenty evidence to back that up. Whether its Casey in his ear saying "What are you doing?! Read your card! Shoot the ball!!", or its Demar saying "Man, this whole passing thing stinks and I need to just get mine", I'm going to go with the one that actually has supporting evidence... which is Casey is an idiot.
              Last edited by Joey; Thu Nov 19, 2015, 06:00 PM.

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              • #22
                Interesting thread I think JV had the trust of lowry and derozan and even during this down period there are periods of these games where both guys have tried to feed him but the team as a whole is starting and finishing poorly and they get back in games with either ball movement and or effective driving they lose these these traits when the opponent makes a run. This could be a fatique thing in Utah but that excuse could not be used in the sac and gs game. This is an issue both the collective (management,coaching and players have to resolve) or change is required.

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                • #23
                  DD will feel entitled to say he's the MAN. because as he's said publicly before he's been here when loosing was the only thing. His mentality may be messed up. More importantly it must be noted that Masai off season moves didn't move the needle at all for Raps. Raps became a more balanced team by losig GV n lou and adding Carroll and CJ. But I think Masai big gamble was the leaps JV would make and it hasn't worked out as of yet. A loss to the Lakers tmrw night and phones around the league would start ringing.

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                  • #24
                    Joey wrote: View Post
                    The only other coach Demar has had is Jay Triano.... not exactly a great starting off point. Lol

                    Not making excuses, just simply saying that with a good coach that put Demar in the proper situations to take advantage of his skills while minimizing his weaknesses.. instead of the exact opposite, I think Demar could be everything you guys hope and dream for. And he's certainly shown plenty evidence to back that up. Whether its Casey in his ear saying "What are you doing?! Read your card! Shoot the ball!!", or its Demar saying "Man, this whole passing thing stinks and I need to just get mine", I'm going to go with the one that actually has supporting evidence... which is Casey is an idiot.
                    a coach doesnt improve ones decision make on the court
                    a coach doesnt improve oned defensive intensity
                    a coach doesnt improve ones shooting


                    especially one who has been in the league for 7 years and is due for a very large raise.

                    That is a VERY risky game to play imo.

                    and plenty of evidence?

                    His style of play either works for him or it doesnt. either he gets to the line 14 times to make up for terrible decisions or he doesnt. either his teamates convert on half of those bailout oh shit passes or they dont. I do not see any difference. it is the same old, clear out the side, drop the head, drive headlong into traffic or dribble dribble 18 footer pullup.

                    It has been the same thing for years

                    I dont think casey is calling timeouts to tell demar that he needs to start taking over the game.
                    "Ok guys we have the lead, we have been playing unselfish and big, we are gonna switch things up and go isolation and small ball to really confuse the opposing team." Casey is dumb, but no one is that damn stupid.
                    Last edited by Snooch; Thu Nov 19, 2015, 06:41 PM.

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                    • #25
                      Snooch wrote: View Post
                      a coach doesnt improve ones decision make on the court
                      a coach doesnt improve oned defensive intensity
                      a coach doesnt improve ones shooting


                      especially one who has been in the league for 7 years and is due for a very large raise.

                      That is a VERY risky game to play imo.

                      and plenty of evidence?

                      His style of play either works for him or it doesnt. either he gets to the line 14 times to make up for terrible decisions or he doesnt. either his teamates convert on half of those bailout oh shit passes or they dont. I do not see any difference. it is the same old, clear out the side, drop the head, drive headlong into traffic or dribble dribble 18 footer pullup.

                      It has been the same thing for years

                      I dont think casey is calling timeouts to tell demar that he needs to start taking over the game.
                      "Ok guys we have the lead, we have been playing unselfish and big, we are gonna switch things up and go isolation and small ball to really confuse the opposing team." Casey is dumb, but no one is that damn stupid.
                      Casey is that dumb, its the same crap since he arrived.

                      If Demar wasn't a FA I'd say try him under a new coach. Under Triano he was used as a SG - shooting off screen and curls, cutting, with much less ball-handling.

                      It's really a timing issue. Casey has to go and its risky to re-sign Demar to a big deal with no evidence he can play another way. I wouldn't hate it if Casey gets fired and Demar is kept

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                      • #26
                        Snooch wrote: View Post
                        I dont think casey is calling timeouts to tell demar that he needs to start taking over the game.
                        "Ok guys we have the lead, we have been playing unselfish and big, we are gonna switch things up and go isolation and small ball to really confuse the opposing team." Casey is dumb, but no one is that damn stupid.
                        I wouldn't be surprised if in crunch time he says something like "Kyle and DeMar, now is your turn to shine".

                        Unfortunately, to them, that means hero-ball. It should mean lead the team to victory by creating efficient shots for any Raptor player on the court. Casey doesn't hold them accountable, because "those are shots they normally make" (I still don't understand how a player shooting under 50% 'normally' makes any shot).

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                        • #27
                          The hero - ball starts around 8 minutes of the 4th in close games. A couple of possession is a player going rogue. An entire half quarter is planned. Switched hero-ball for ISO since it isn't really ISO as some posters have mentioned.

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                          • #28
                            Joey wrote: View Post
                            The only other coach Demar has had is Jay Triano.... not exactly a great starting off point. Lol

                            Not making excuses, just simply saying that with a good coach that put Demar in the proper situations to take advantage of his skills while minimizing his weaknesses.. instead of the exact opposite, I think Demar could be everything you guys hope and dream for. And he's certainly shown plenty evidence to back that up. Whether its Casey in his ear saying "What are you doing?! Read your card! Shoot the ball!!", or its Demar saying "Man, this whole passing thing stinks and I need to just get mine", I'm going to go with the one that actually has supporting evidence... which is Casey is an idiot.
                            Let's see. Think of all other great coaches around the league and try to imagine Derozan's skill set in their system...

                            Bud - if you can't shoot and defend there's no place here.

                            Kerr - midrange game is prohibited. No shots with hand in your face. ( something derozan admitted to being more comfortable doing than taking an open shot)

                            Pop - preaches defence. High IQ players

                            Brad Stevens - spread the floor with shooting and movement without the ball.

                            Really, you can't think of many coaches currently having any success with a player like Demar.

                            Casey has always mentioned his team's style is based on the strength of his guards. So what we are seeing is Demars game.

                            I personally think Casey is the best thing to have happened to Demar, in terms of personal gains. If he is gonna receive a near max next summer, he owes half of that to Casey.

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                            • #29
                              KeonClark wrote: View Post
                              I've been mulling this in my head today...the chicken or the egg...coach or player...everyone's quick to say they're just following Casey's marching orders, but reading between the lines on Carroll and Casey post game, I get the sense Demar and kyle just go rogue when they feel like it.

                              Also, as bad as casey is, it seems more likely a player with an ego thinks Iso is the best play than it is for a coach to go "fuck what's been working, let's go street ball guys"
                              I have difficulties with this (DD & Kyle going rogue). Last night's Jazz game was another where we play Joseph as primary ball handler. Joseph gives it to DD just passed half court to "proceed with his shit".
                              Now, I'm thinking: If Casey after a time out "explains" to Joseph what he wants ran (dribble penetration...), why do we not see that?
                              Simple: Because Casey thinks that DD going iso is his best play. That being the case time after time: Why in the world do we need 2PGs just for 1 of them to hand ball to Demar?

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                              • #30
                                The hero ball issue might be true, when comes to DD and Lowry. Takes me back to the time when we killed Rudy Gay for prohibiting everyone from looking at the stats sheet after games. Maybe he saw the whole hero ball picture. When comes to Casey aside from the ISO plays I think he's doing the best with what he has.

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