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No man's land. How do you get out of it?

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  • No man's land. How do you get out of it?

    The Raptors are going to make the playoffs. And just like the last 2 years, they'll be out in the 1st round.

    They're in no man's land.

    What i would do? i would trade BOTH Lowry and DeRozan in the offseason. Raptors can get a lot for these guys IMO specially Lowry. Move them for draft picks or young players WITH UPSIDE. Or maybe package one of them to move up in the draft.

    Free Agency - KD isn't realistic. Let's be honest here. I think he stays in OKC.

    HARRISON BARNES is the guy that i would target. Believe me, he can do a whole lot more than shoot 3's and dunk. He's a special talent. He's the Warriors most underrated player. I'd give him 20-25mill/year. No way GSW matches that.


    Mamba Mentality

  • #2
    Why should KD stay in OKC tho? HE NEEDS THAT RING dude.

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    • #3
      I really like Barnes, but he's RFA. It's going to be difficult to get him. I think that he can emerge as a star if he has the chance. I will probably look like an idiot saying this, but he and GSW reminds me of Harden situation in OKC. Whoever gets Barnes will have a legit star for years to come (even though that comparison doesn't look good at this point because Harden plays like crap). So yeah, I would rather pay that kind of money to Barnes than to DD even if it sounds crazy.
      MeDar ReDozan

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      • #4
        OP, your premise is flawed. You don't dump Lowry/Derozan for a Harrison Barnes max contract. This is from the article you referenced:

        Barnes was 7-of-24 out of the pick-and-roll last season, with an ungodly turnover rate, per Synergy Sports. Hell, even a lot of the successful Barnes-dominant plays ended with pull-up midrangers:

        Golden State pushed for the no. 1 spot in points per possession last season precisely by avoiding these shots. Critics envision a Barnes-centric offense as a hail of bricky midrange jumpers — a low-efficiency clunker.

        Barnes just hasn’t looked comfortable driving with the ball, and he knows it. He gets tunnel vision, forcing up shots when easy passes are available. He doesn’t have the fluid change of pace the best ball handlers use to prod defenses open. He sometimes spooks at the first sight of a help defender, as if he’s afraid to make mistakes. He doesn’t appear to feel the game. What happens when defenses trap him against the pick-and-roll? Or go under picks, daring him to can off-the-dribble 3s?

        The Warriors gave Barnes a bunch of chances at little elbow pick-and-rolls when he slid to power forward, and they too often went nowhere.
        Barnes (plus Jonas, Cojo) will be good enough to keep us from stockpiling additional high lotto picks.

        If you want to scrap the whole thing, dump everyone, aim for a high pick now and add Barnes-type players once you've built your foundation.

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        • #5
          Lets throw money at the fourth best player of that lineup and hope the added role will not result in less efficiency in a team with glaring holes and issues with coaching thus exposing the limitation of that player. I swear I heard that one before....

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          • #6
            I
            TRex wrote: View Post
            The Raptors are going to make the playoffs. And just like the last 2 years, they'll be out in the 1st round.

            They're in no man's land.

            What i would do? i would trade BOTH Lowry and DeRozan in the offseason. Raptors can get a lot for these guys IMO specially Lowry. Move them for draft picks or young players WITH UPSIDE. Or maybe package one of them to move up in the draft.

            Free Agency - KD isn't realistic. Let's be honest here. I think he stays in OKC.

            HARRISON BARNES is the guy that i would target. Believe me, he can do a whole lot more than shoot 3's and dunk. He's a special talent. He's the Warriors most underrated player. I'd give him 20-25mill/year. No way GSW matches that.


            I thought MU said we would not be stuck in the middle? DD is the key--whatever MU ultimately decides to do will drive everything else. We are currently a treadmill team. I like DD's loyalty and work ethic. I really would like to see how efficient he could be under a different coach before blowing things up. We certainly have options which is better then say the Knicks situation.

            Comment


            • #7
              Hotshot wrote: View Post
              Lets throw money at the fourth best player of that lineup and hope the added role will not result in less efficiency in a team with glaring holes and issues with coaching thus exposing the limitation of that player. I swear I heard that one before....
              I'd say it's not that bad to be 4th best after Curry, Thompson and Green. All three are superb players and all three are better than any Raps player.
              MeDar ReDozan

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              • #8
                Changes are needed but you can't trade DeRozan inoff season unless he opts in...which ain't happening. Trade Lowry in offseason no problem.

                Options for DD:

                1) trade him before deadline
                2) let him walk in offseason and use his cap hold elsewhere
                3) sign him and trade him after dec.15/16

                I'd assume trade him and Lowry before deadline.

                This team blows and is not fun to watch

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                • #9
                  Henry_Chinaski wrote: View Post
                  I'd say it's not that bad to be 4th best after Curry, Thompson and Green. All three are superb players and all three are better than any Raps player.
                  Barnes and Green look good on GSW, they both arent complete players. Barnes is big and can shoot and post but he cant drive and finish, Green is a good 4th shooter and really doesnt do anything else on offense but plays great D. Neither might be great passers or shooters on another team. Demarre looked like a good passer in Atlanta but not in Toronto, his perimeter D is really good though

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                  • #10
                    You know how we stop being stuck in the middle? Fire Casey, trade/don't re-sign DD, thats the start.

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                    • #11
                      Barnes can't create offense consistently for himself. He struggled badly (PER < 10) as the first option off the bench against other team's second units. I repeat, he struggled against other team's bench players. He thrives as a 3rd or 4th option, when you surround him with historically great offensive players to attract attention away and get him easy shots.

                      Yes, he was the #1 rated high school player in the nation, before he entered college. But so was B.J. Mullens. lol. Barnes is way over-hyped because of that early rating, IMO. Steph Curry wasn't even good enough to be ranked in HS. LOL.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Winning a playoffs series requires a super star or a great system (both typically means you're a finals contender). Raptors have neither, and the latter should be easier to achieve. So get rid of Casey. Bring in a new coach/system, and then surround players that fit that system.

                        DD is not going to help many systems because of his lack of 3 point shooting. Lowry appears to be too hard to reign in at times. Both probably need to go.. and then you look for guys that work well within a system that can be successful.

                        CoJo can be used as the primary guard for Lowry.. Wright as his backup. Bring in a guy that has been in successful systems (Horford or Batum seem like good fits). And go from there.

                        No need to tank.. but priority #1 has to be a new coach.

                        Once you have the system.. then you can look for super stars. Hopefully by the time the system is rolling Wiggins is a star and leaves Minnesota. That's always plan B anyway (plan A should still be KD).

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                        • #13
                          Scraptor wrote: View Post
                          OP, your premise is flawed. You don't dump Lowry/Derozan for a Harrison Barnes max contract. This is from the article you referenced:



                          Barnes (plus Jonas, Cojo) will be good enough to keep us from stockpiling additional high lotto picks.

                          If you want to scrap the whole thing, dump everyone, aim for a high pick now and add Barnes-type players once you've built your foundation.
                          Every player in this league is flawed. There's no perfect basketball player. HB's biggest weakness IMO is his off the dribble game.

                          I've followed Barnes career since he was a freshman at UNC. When i first saw him play, my first impression was, Paul Pierce. That hasn't changed. I believe in this guy.

                          Barnes > DeRozan. I don't think it's even close.

                          Lowry offensively > Joseph. But Joseph IMO overall is the better player. MUCH better defender, better playmaker/decision maker. Higher bball IQ.

                          So i don't think they're going to lose much if they lose Lowry/DeRozan.

                          Raps would be in much better shape going forward with Barnes, JV, Carroll, Joseph + the draft picks/young players that they can get for Lowry and DeRozan + the Knicks/Nuggets draft pick.
                          Last edited by The Great One; Sat Nov 21, 2015, 05:30 PM.
                          Mamba Mentality

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                          • #14
                            planetmars wrote: View Post
                            Winning a playoffs series requires a super star or a great system (both typically means you're a finals contender). Raptors have neither, and the latter should be easier to achieve. So get rid of Casey. Bring in a new coach/system, and then surround players that fit that system.

                            DD is not going to help many systems because of his lack of 3 point shooting. Lowry appears to be too hard to reign in at times. Both probably need to go.. and then you look for guys that work well within a system that can be successful.

                            CoJo can be used as the primary guard for Lowry.. Wright as his backup. Bring in a guy that has been in successful systems (Horford or Batum seem like good fits). And go from there.

                            No need to tank.. but priority #1 has to be a new coach.

                            Once you have the system.. then you can look for super stars. Hopefully by the time the system is rolling Wiggins is a star and leaves Minnesota. That's always plan B anyway (plan A should still be KD).
                            Think a new coach is crucial because even good ones might not fit the roster. Blatt never signed on to be Lebron assistant and neither Hoiberg or Donocan look comfortable reorganizing after previous coaches who had very set systems. If a new coach is brought in, Raps need to try to clear out as many old pieces as possible. Doesnt mean Demar is gone but that its really up to the new coach.

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                            • #15
                              psrs1 wrote: View Post
                              I
                              I thought MU said we would not be stuck in the middle? DD is the key--whatever MU ultimately decides to do will drive everything else. We are currently a treadmill team. I like DD's loyalty and work ethic. I really would like to see how efficient he could be under a different coach before blowing things up. We certainly have options which is better then say the Knicks situation.
                              Yup, exactly 800 days ago!

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