No man's land. How do you get out of it?

[Nilanka]

Another thing to think about is that Ujiri is also playing the ultra-long game and positioning himself for #BringWiggyHome. The earliest that can happen is 2019, albeit very unlikely. Knowing that Wiggins and other Canadian stars are available as part of the Lebron-inspired "stars coming home" NBA trend is a huge recruiting advantage to the Raps in the next decade. or so. Just gotta be patient folks - which pro-tankers should really have no problem with.

http://news.nationalpost.com/sports/...r-now-at-least

Can we really call it a "trend" if it only happened once? It certainly didn't happen for Nash

[golden]

Another thing to think about is that Ujiri is also playing the ultra-long game and positioning himself for #BringWiggyHome. The earliest that can happen is 2019, albeit very unlikely. Knowing that Wiggins and other Canadian stars are available as part of the Lebron-inspired "stars coming home" NBA trend is a huge recruiting advantage to the Raps in the next decade. or so. Just gotta be patient folks - which pro-tankers should really have no problem with.

If the Timberwolves do everything they can to keep him around, the earliest Wiggins can become an unrestricted free agent — and come home to Toronto, naturally — is after the 2018-19 season, which would be Wiggins’ fifth year in the league. To earn free agency, Wiggins would, theoretically, have to turn down a large contract extension from Minnesota following the 2016-17 season and eschew the restricted free agency process, which would allow the Timberwolves to match any offer, a year later. It is worth noting that since the current structure of the collective bargaining agreement has been in place, no player has turned down a maximum-value extension from his incumbent team. So, the dreamers have Wiggins likely doing something unprecedented.

http://news.nationalpost.com/sports/...r-now-at-least

[Snooch]

This trade Lowry and Derozan nonsense is fantasy land stuff. It isn't happening.

I want to say i appreciate you certainty, but alas, I cannot.

Lowry I can agree with, but in no way does keepeing demar make us a bettter team. I am not going into that debate again, but if you search it you will find about a billion results as to why keeping Demar is a pisspoor idea that does nothing to benefit this team as it is now being constructed.

[Nilanka]

I would disagree that Toronto is in "no man's land" and I don't want to get into the treadmill/tank debate but Ujiri isn't going to blow up a team that has won 48 and 49 games (and will win about that again) and will make the playoffs three years straight. It isn't going to happen. He didn't sign Carroll, JV, Joseph and try to sign Aldridge cause he wants to rebuild. This trade Lowry and Derozan nonsense is fantasy land stuff. It isn't happening.

Wouldn't that be how we define "no man's land" though? That is, a playoff team that isn't much of a threat to advance? A team that is too good for a high draft pick, and too crappy to compete for a title? A team that is on the verge of maintaining this status for the 3rd consecutive year?

[SkywalkerAC]

Good teams do tend to get better or stay good (until things start going wrong and the plug gets pulled). For years and years I predicted that the Hawks would fail out of the playoffs and time and time again they've at it, even without a good fanship to buoy them up! Next thing you know they're one of the top teams in the league. The Bulls had an MVP in Rose but for the most part they've just gotten better without him. The Mavs are constantly rotating in new faded stars around Dirk, and they hang in there. The Spurs are the Spurs.

Sure, there are truly great players, but we've got a pretty great player in Lowry. The difference maker for a lot of these teams is just a relentless pursuit of winning basketball. We've become a winning basketball organization and we (probably) haven't found our long-term coach yet, we haven't added our Pau Gasol/LMA/veteran star yet (though Scola is pretty sweet at times), and we already have a prospect-laden roster (and rights to some not on the roster).

Bruno, Bebe, Powell, Wright, Daniels, Bennett. Then Cory, Jonas, Ross, Biyombo are how old? Then you get into JJ and DeMar and Patterson starting to approach their primes, with Lowry and Carroll being the guys in the thick of it, and Scola at the tail end. That you have all this youth developing on a competitive squad is something to be celebrated.

If you really want to 'get out of no man's land' and get good, you've got to be willing to let your team grow up and become a veteran.

And don't forget about the picks we already have, Nando neither.

[tDotted]

I'm starting to think they lucked into that awesome mix of players they had before trading for MCW. Most of the moves since have run counter to that young, well spaced, 3 pt barrage, gangly athletic interchangeable parts defensive team they had.

Bought into the nonsense hype of having an all 6'6 and up starting lineup. Then they said fuck it, let's get a 6'6 backup PG too. I mean, a pick for Vasquez? What else were they thinking? Then they decided they needed more scoring. So.. Monroe.

Bucks didn't learn from us: if you had a good defensive team the year before, going after offensive players will hurt your defense.

[slaw]

I would disagree that Toronto is in "no man's land" and I don't want to get into the treadmill/tank debate but Ujiri isn't going to blow up a team that has won 48 and 49 games (and will win about that again) and will make the playoffs three years straight. It isn't going to happen. He didn't sign Carroll, JV, Joseph and try to sign Aldridge cause he wants to rebuild. This trade Lowry and Derozan nonsense is fantasy land stuff. It isn't happening.

[golden]

I'm starting to think they lucked into that awesome mix of players they had before trading for MCW. Most of the moves since have run counter to that young, well spaced, 3 pt barrage, gangly athletic interchangeable parts defensive team they had.

From the outside looking in, it seems like the Bucks were making moves with that some of that "position-less" switching on defense trend in mind. They brought in really tall PGs - MCW and Vasquez who, in theory, have the size to guard 1-2-3. Unfortunately, those guys can't even guard 0, so that was a bit of a mistake. They also made a bit of a Colangelo type move in getting Greg Monroe, i.e., we need to improve our interior scoring, so let's get a top-notch low-post scorer. Again, the problem is that Monroe is mostly a one-way player with a not-so-great defensive reputation, even though his PPG/RPG numbers usually look pretty good (kind of like Kevin Love and David Lee). MCW and Monroe also don't do too much to help your spacing, unlike Brandon Knight who can be a 3-pt threat.

Ironic how we are talking about the importance of on-court chemistry on the Bucks, where the prevailing wisdom on this board is that talent trumps all - especially young talent with high upside and a great coach. While at the same time, in this thread, we are questioning Masai's decision to keep building around a chemistry that works to some degree. Will be an interesting case study to watch for the next few seasons for both teams.

[S.R.]

They are now 30th in DRTG after ranking 4th last year... jeez

I'm starting to think they lucked into that awesome mix of players they had before trading for MCW. Most of the moves since have run counter to that young, well spaced, 3 pt barrage, gangly athletic interchangeable parts defensive team they had.

[SkywalkerAC]

They are now 30th in DRTG after ranking 4th last year... jeez

Crazy. But we know that feeling all too well.

[tDotted]

also getting Monroe and Vasquez lool

They are now 30th in DRTG after ranking 4th last year... jeez

[SkywalkerAC]

We can spend our way over the cap with Bird Rights... but for who? DeMar?

The issue is we don't have the talent on the roster that's worth spending big bucks on to go over the cap. We need to cash in assets for value via trade if we're going to keep trying to build from the middle. Then try to work sign-and-trades in free agency, though I think the Ross deal will end up really screwing us.

That said, I do have a feeling this is going to be a more active year for trades than we've seen in some time, so hopefully Masai is ready to pounce. Whether he can extract enough value for us remains to be seen.

You trade for your big piece (maybe using DeMar, maybe not), then go over the cap to sign your own free agents, plus use the full MLE, etc.

[Primer]

Did any posters see the cost MLSE is charging for MU's giants of Africa gala Dec 6? $1200 per ticket. Yikes.

Well, it's a fundraising event, meant to get rich people to part with their money for a good cause. Not meant for shlubs like us.

[rocwell]

Did any posters see the cost MLSE is charging for MU's giants of Africa gala Dec 6? $1200 per ticket. Yikes.

Special Guests:

Didier Drogba

I nearly died

[psrs1]

You have to assume, though, that he's very aware of this. I don't think he was just sweet-talking when he made that comment about no man's land, I think he meant it. (Actually, I think the whole point of him saying it in the first place was to prime the fan base for a complete tear down.) But then, unexpectedly, the team started winning...

Also, (maybe sadly), the no man's land comment was made when he had full backing from Leiweke, a man who goes after championships. Now, he's answering to a money man, and the allure of the packed houses and playoff revenue that come with a treadmill team may veto any suggestion of a tear down.

Did any posters see the cost MLSE is charging for MU's giants of Africa gala Dec 6? $1200 per ticket. Yikes.