Game #15: Toronto Raptors 91 - Los Angeles Clippers 80

[3inthekeon]

Interesting read.

Not particularly familiar with vantage. Do they provide game breakdown too?

They did previews and breakdowns on some games last year, but it looks like only some previews this year. They have a ton of info, but release only small bits to the general public, since they sell their product, including to NBA teams.

[tDotted]

So it is plausible that the aggressive stats comment is valid.. So we can leave it at that..
and that there is room to have both the notion of consciously leaving guys wide open on the line is not a repeatable success strategy in each and every game but that the notion of egging on guys like Rivers and Smith and Pierece to take those shots (knowing the success factor was going to be very low) while still getting a hand in the face can both co-exist...

Sorry, but I can't let this one go. You don't "egg" someone who is 4th all time in threes made to shoot.

So does Houston make the playoffs and vindicate the whacking of McHale or do they not ? Just looking for a binary yes/no answer if you have an opinion on this one.

They weren't on pace to make the playoffs anyway.

[Axel]

They did previews and breakdowns on some games last year, but it looks like only some previews this year. They have a ton of info, but release only small bits to the general public, since they sell their product, including to NBA teams.

Obviously, anyone who sells their info would have potential bias, but when you look at the date of the article (and their reference to 2014-2015 stats), and run the current NBA.com stats, I think the issue they are referring to existed last season and that this season would be different.

Jamal Crawford for example - he averages 4.1 3PA this season. According to the NBA.com numbers, half of his 3PA come with the defender either tight (1.7) or very tight (0.3), and half open (1.4) or wide open (0.7). This would be far from the Vantage article's suggestion of only 18% captured.

[Demographic Shift]

Sorry, but I can't let this one go. You don't "egg" someone who is 4th all time in threes made to shoot.

Pierce is shooting just 25% this season. What he did last year or 3 years ago doesn't change this years output. The one he took was uncontested. He was wiiiide open. He air balled it. Wish he was doing that last spring. If you have Josh Smith taking 3s as his first option that's a good thing for the defence. Just like a guy who thinks he can hit that high fastball and can't, Josh just isn't going to hurt you if he is shooting a shot he doesn't make, give him the look..hand up to contest and Josh or Rivers just keep on laying bricks

They weren't on pace to make the playoffs anyway.

There were 71 games to go. It would seem like enough time for a new head coach to make an impact no? They were what 3 games out?
So do you think that Houston makes the playoffs with a coaching change? Just yes or no....
For the record I think Houston edges out one of Utah or Phoenix for The last spot and gets crushed by GSW in round 1. They probably could have done that with McHale too.

[DanH]

Uh, there's a reason you never trust critiques from a direct competitor.

Looking at the breakdowns at the team level this year, about 55% of the Raptors' threes have been contested or heavily contested. I doubt they are that much of an outlier.

[Demographic Shift]

Uh, there's a reason you never trust critiques from a direct competitor.

Looking at the breakdowns at the team level this year, about 55% of the Raptors' threes have been contested or heavily contested. I doubt they are that much of an outlier.

Point taken on giving implicit support to any direct competitors claims about your product.

However in a world of many shades of grey I was and remain leery of a statistical claim that fully 90% of the perimeter shots taken 28/32 had no one within 4-6 feet of the shooter. I watched the game from front to back. That claim just didn't pass the smell test. The game moves fast and the players in it are even faster. It is possible a beta +1 technology fails to catch everything.

The rants on strategies and their applicability and relevance on a no holds barred sports board are to be expected. Its just sports and the equivalent of two guys arguing about stuff over beers in a bar in front of the screen.
No ill will towards Axel.

First big test against the big swinging dick on the block in the EC tomorrow night. To bad we are short handed with JV out and the Cavs are still awaiting Irvings return. Still should be a compelling game. We have a guy in Carroll who should slow LBJ a bit. Still don't know who or how they are going to chase Kevin Love off the 3 point line with Scola or PPat if Carroll is on James. Biz vs Thompson on the boards should be a real battle. Think we have a solid leg up with Lowry/Cojo on Delavadova + Smith or Williams in the backcourt. Hope its close and hope they(Raps) win.

[tDotted]

Pierce is shooting just 25% this season. What he did last year or 3 years ago doesn't change this years output.

12 games.

[Demographic Shift]

12 games.

This guy was the MVP and once led the league in scoring too. Just not this year.
Time marches on and waits for no one. Not even the truth. Even 12 games in.

[raptors999]

This guy was the MVP and once led the league in scoring too. Just not this year.
Time marches on and waits for no one. Not even the truth. Even 12 games in.

Clippers need an actual starting 3 both for offense and defense. Even in Washington he was a 4. Unless hes spacing he isnt getting open on the perimter

[tDotted]

This guy was the MVP and once led the league in scoring too. Just not this year.
Time marches on and waits for no one. Not even the truth. Even 12 games in.

I'm being punked right?

[DanH]

Through Kyle Korver's first 4 games he shot 25% from 3. I suppose it would have been a good idea to leave him open too.

4 games is too small a sample to make a real judgement on a player having lost his ability to shoot. Same goes for 10 games. As with everything in the NBA, until you hit that 20 game mark there's more luck than skill that guides results.

[raptors999]

Through Kyle Korver's first 4 games he shot 25% from 3. I suppose it would have been a good idea to leave him open too.

4 games is too small a sample to make a real judgement on a player having lost his ability to shoot. Same goes for 10 games. As with everything in the NBA, until you hit that 20 game mark there's more luck than skill that guides results.

Korver was missing. PP had 1 3PA and let DC by him for 20 pts in a half off the dribble. He's done as a SF

[S.R.]

Crawford was averaging 22 ppg in the four games prior to this one, including a 37 point night. Just wondering how that fits the theory.

Are the Raptors giving up the three ball on D this year? I hadn't noticed. The perimeter D is generally tighter than last year.

Also Blake and Paul were just super flat. That was the longest the two of them went in a game without either of them scoring - ever. It was a weird one overall.

[DanH]

Crawford was averaging 22 ppg in the four games prior to this one, including a 37 point night. Just wondering how that fits the theory.

Are the Raptors giving up the three ball on D this year? I hadn't noticed. The perimeter D is generally tighter than last year.

Also Blake and Paul were just super flat. That was the longest the two of them went in a game without either of them scoring - ever. It was a weird one overall.

They were fine early in the year. But it was noted by Axel (maybe? Someone...) that the three point percentages were quite high (this was shortly after the MIA game when the downward trend started). I rebutted that the percentages were a poor way to judge, and that open threes were better. I was lazy and looked up total threes given up as a proxy, and there was an alarming increasing trend at the time. Let me dig a bit.

[A.I]

Crawford was averaging 22 ppg in the four games prior to this one, including a 37 point night. Just wondering how that fits the theory.

Are the Raptors giving up the three ball on D this year? I hadn't noticed. The perimeter D is generally tighter than last year.

Also Blake and Paul were just super flat. That was the longest the two of them went in a game without either of them scoring - ever. It was a weird one overall.

Griffin averages around 26 for the season I think, scored 9 points in this game.