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Managing Minutes - short term vs long term or short sightedness vs vision?

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  • #76
    Think of it this way:

    You're on the last year of your contract, you've moved your wife and two young kids to this different city and whole new country, put them in school, bought a house, etc. And now they're getting used to this lifestyle. They're making friends, building their lives and you see how much they like it here, they may even tell you as much.

    You're playing to get resigned. If not here, at least somewhere else. Heck, you may not be here next year, so what does it really matter to you if your rookies develop? You're trying to keep your starters happy, your bosses happy and your family happy. You'd probably go with what has gotten you here, and what keeps you winning.


    That being said, the last 10 minutes of that Miami game and the last 7-8 of the Indiana game should've been all NP, AB, DW, BC, and LN. No reason why not
    A key that opens many locks is a master key, but a lock that gets open by many keys is just a shitty lock

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    • #77
      e_wheazhy_ wrote: View Post
      You're playing to get resigned. If not here, at least somewhere else. Heck, you may not be here next year, so what does it really matter to you if your rookies develop? You're trying to keep your starters happy, your bosses happy
      I guess a fair bit of blame falls on Masai and MLSE so being happy to settle for regular season wins.

      Still, hard to imagine anyone hiring him to be anything but an assistant next and not sure he has really bolstered his defensive resume here. The words scramble defence might be his coaching epitaph.
      Heir, Prince of Cambridge

      If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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      • #78
        Given Lowry's play the last week, might be too late to worry about this.

        As of halftime against Charlotte, since the Lakers game Kyle is 9/29 from 3, 23/65 from the floor.
        twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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        • #79
          Just wanted to update the "minutes watch", afterall, [From OP] :
          From Casey - credit to JimiCliff for the good find to share http://www.tsn.ca/off-season-weight-...lowry-1.408023
          "We are trying to limit Kyle’s minutes," Casey said. "It’s very difficult in trying to do what we need to do. It depends on the guys behind him stepping up and doing their job so we don’t wear out DeMar and Kyle and our starting unit."

          Since this thread was created (Dec 12th), Lowry is averaging 37.2 MPG (which would rank 4th compared to the current season long leaderboard), an increase of 1.4 MPG. His average in January (8 games) is 39.7 MPG.

          Lowry has now hit the 40 mp threshold 5 times this year (all since the OP).

          His FG% over that span is 30.2%
          Heir, Prince of Cambridge

          If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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          • #80
            Got a lot of rest recently though, now a nice homestand. Hopefully we'll blow a few teams out.

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            • #81
              Axel wrote: View Post
              Just wanted to update the "minutes watch", afterall, [From OP] :
              From Casey - credit to JimiCliff for the good find to share http://www.tsn.ca/off-season-weight-...lowry-1.408023
              "We are trying to limit Kyle’s minutes," Casey said. "It’s very difficult in trying to do what we need to do. It depends on the guys behind him stepping up and doing their job so we don’t wear out DeMar and Kyle and our starting unit."

              Since this thread was created (Dec 12th), Lowry is averaging 37.2 MPG (which would rank 4th compared to the current season long leaderboard), an increase of 1.4 MPG. His average in January (8 games) is 39.7 MPG.

              Lowry has now hit the 40 mp threshold 5 times this year (all since the OP).

              His FG% over that span is 30.2%
              What Casey says and does are two completely different things. It's been happening for so long now that, at this point, it'd be more of a shock if he did what he said.
              "My biggest concern as a coach is to not confuse winning with progress." - Steve Kerr
              "If it's unacceptable in defeat, it's unacceptable in victory." - Jeff Van Gundy

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              • #82
                Just Is wrote: View Post
                What Casey says and does are two completely different things. It's been happening for so long now that, at this point, it'd be more of a shock if he did what he said.
                Gotta keep pounding the rock.
                Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                • #83
                  Axel wrote: View Post
                  Just wanted to update the "minutes watch", afterall, [From OP] :
                  From Casey - credit to JimiCliff for the good find to share http://www.tsn.ca/off-season-weight-...lowry-1.408023
                  "We are trying to limit Kyle’s minutes," Casey said. "It’s very difficult in trying to do what we need to do. It depends on the guys behind him stepping up and doing their job so we don’t wear out DeMar and Kyle and our starting unit."

                  Since this thread was created (Dec 12th), Lowry is averaging 37.2 MPG (which would rank 4th compared to the current season long leaderboard), an increase of 1.4 MPG. His average in January (8 games) is 39.7 MPG.

                  Lowry has now hit the 40 mp threshold 5 times this year (all since the OP).

                  His FG% over that span is 30.2%
                  These numbers make my heart hurt lol.

                  Play the young guys so they have the chance to do their job how about? If we try playing DD/Lowry for 10 minutes less, for 2 games in a row against "weaker" teams, and we end up getting blown out I'll shut up and we can keep playing them for 40 minute nights.

                  I just want to actually see the guys behind them not doing their job y'know?

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                  • #84
                    I'd like to see Lowry's minutes managed better, definitely.

                    However I don't think Lowry breaking down last year had much, if anything to do with his playing time. I think the period without DeRozan where he had to - or felt he had to - shoulder the load was what did it. That's supported by the fact that in 2013-14 he actually played MORE minutes per game than he did last year but there was absolutely no burnout evident in the playoffs. Also Lowry has conditioned his body better than in years past.

                    Resting players is something I'd like to do but is very difficult to do when you're not consistently putting away other teams early. Most of the top players on playoff teams are getting similar minutes to what Lowry gets. Blake's at 35, LeBron's at 36, Gasol's at 35, Harden's at 38, George is at 36, Butler's at 38, Bosh is at 34, Drummond's at 35. It's the norm.

                    The only "exceptions" really are the Spurs, Warriors and Hawks. The first two can do that simply because the game is usually already over by the end of the 3rd quarter (Kawhi is still playing just under 34 a game though, Draymond's at 35, Curry 34) and the Hawks play such a team-oriented game that they can afford to plug and play more, plus their top 2 guys are bigs who tend to not play as many minutes.

                    So would it be nice if we could run Lowry 30-32 minutes a game or less and rest him up more? Sure of course. But I don't think it's particularly realistic of an expectation, and Casey isn't doing anything totally out of the ordinary here since most other teams are playing their top guy the same or similar amount of minutes to what Lowry's getting, and he's not exactly the oldest or even most injury prone out of that group.

                    Resting guys is really a luxury. This isn't something that personally, I'm going to indict Casey for, since it's fairly standard. Your best guys are going to play big minutes unless you can just flat-out put other teams away with regularity. And right now, Kyle, who was already amazing, is having a career season with career highs in WS (on pace for), WS/48, PER and netRTG among others.

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                    • #85
                      Lowry's high minutes is really pissing me off

                      He's 4th on the list of minutes per game, with Demar getting in 5th

                      We're winning games yeah, but do we need to put so much burden on Lowry?

                      Chess not checkers, its useless to win 10+ in a row in Janruary when the only thing matters is post-season performance.

                      Last thing we need is a gassed out Lowry

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                      • #86
                        I think people place far too much emphasis on this tuff.

                        NBA games aren't that deadly every night, and these are elite athletes.

                        If they are fatigued in march april, you dial it back, si tum out here and there just like the spurs do. They are elite and can recover just fine with a small bit of rest.

                        Thing is, this team NEEDS high minutes from key guys to make what they do automatic. 3-4 new players, etc, its just needed. Those rotations need to be imprinted, and they need to tinker as well. Your horses gotta pull.

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                        • #87
                          hopefully we do not get another injury. I think when DC comes back both kyle and demars minutes could go down especially if ross
                          has some consistency to his game. I think Casey, Lowry, Demar all have the same goal which is playoff success and think they would communicate that these minutes could potentially not be sustainable. It would not surprise me if there is no advantage to move up in the standings if demar and kyle sit out the latter games of the regular season.

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                          • #88
                            agreed.

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                            • #89
                              2kfeen wrote: View Post
                              He's 4th on the list of minutes per game, with Demar getting in 5th

                              We're winning games yeah, but do we need to put so much burden on Lowry?

                              Chess not checkers, its useless to win 10+ in a row in Janruary when the only thing matters is post-season performance.

                              Last thing we need is a gassed out Lowry
                              The thing is, playing them high minutes isn't the problem. Butler has been tops in minutes played for several seasons now, he is fine. Its playing them high minutes while they are injured, which is what happened to Lowry last season and Carroll this season.

                              Although I wouldn't mind if their minutes went down and Wright and Powell got some consistent run, like 5-10 mins, especially against weaker teams. Although Casey wouldn't do that, so no point saying it.

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                              • #90
                                http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/...michael-jordan
                                jordan, more minute more usage, more games

                                http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/...michael-jordan
                                scottie near the same

                                http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/.../allen-iverson
                                iverson

                                http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/1966/lebron-james
                                lebron

                                we could just keep going but i think the point is that none of their coaches knew how to coach the game of basketball

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