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Game #33: Toronto Raptors 94 - Washington Wizards 91

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  • JimiCliff
    replied
    Mess wrote: View Post
    That's to protect guys from getting hurt. I don't want an intentional foul called because, for example, someone lightly pushes a guy going for an alley-oop so he misses the lob. Or someone fighting for position under the basket holds a player's arm because the ball bounces away from him. It's not racquetball.
    Not what I meant.

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  • Mess
    replied
    JimiCliff wrote: View Post
    Intentional fouls do double penalize it. My feeling is, there should be waaaaay more intentional fouls called.
    That's to protect guys from getting hurt. I don't want an intentional foul called because, for example, someone lightly pushes a guy going for an alley-oop so he misses the lob. Or someone fighting for position under the basket holds a player's arm because the ball bounces away from him. It's not racquetball.

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  • Demographic Shift
    replied
    Jclaw wrote: View Post
    He may have gotten the ball but the replays showed him getting quite a bit of contact with demar's elbow as well. There may have been gifts but that was a good call.
    OK...
    I got one look at it in front of me ... no replay live.

    To no one in particular.... its always different when your at the game live.... the perspective simply changes because you see the whole court not just the TV shot... you see the players facial reactions and their body language...So here are a few things I saw during the game using no advanced stats just watching whats happening....

    1. PPat is just struggling within the flow of the game on almost every aspect of the game. He is in the wrong place.. he arrives late.. he doesn't focus on whats unfolding and gets caught defensively .... passes arrive from him almost unexpectedly. Its not physical for him right now. Its mental and its anyones guess as to why this is happening.

    2.They chased Tross off the line as a game plan item... but looked really comfortably moving inside a few steps off the dribble and pulling up and MAKING that 10-12 shot. Just from the eyeball analytics in the stands it looks like he can do this all night long if need be. This going to help. What was really great is that dunk he made when the sea somewhat parted and he just went rightr to the basket. If he can do that once a game along with make that pull up shot consistently 11M$ is looking cheap.

    3.Its a change but when DD gets double teamed now its not like he is in jail. He can get out of them more easily than he ever used to and the Whiz game planned to double and trap him. Yes it ups the pressure and the anxiety but the guy got through a lot of them and perhaps important only to me is that his facial expression is non plussed. He doesn't rattle any more when the trap and double comes.

    4. The crowd likes Biz .. a lot.. .Its a Toronto thing i guess. Cheering on the less talented reserve but that guy works his arse off. Other thing is not to many willing to go into the windmill arms and elbows and knees as he goes up for boards.

    5. Demarre Carroll is a good to very good on the ball man defender. He can make spot up 3's. He can make baskets off some really smart cuts. However he should be banned from trying to make pull up tear drop/ push shots from 7 to 10 feet. Its ugly. Its not his game.

    6.JV is noticeably quicker than before his injury. He is still favouring the hand. Biz is way better on the offensive glass than JV (he will get to more balls) but on the defensive end JV is as good as and likely better Biz. JV is simply light years better than Biz at the offensive end around the basket catching and shooting and of the loose ball Orebs he gets he can put them back up for points. So in a direct compare on the offensive end JV is just light years better. He knows what to do and does it. Biz struggles with any form of touch or finesse.

    7. This team is a pretty physical team which is a departure from last year. Kyle is a bastard when he plays. He head butted Gortat in the nuts when he lost the ball and didn't blink an eye. No I'm sorry or a hand pat. Just on with the game. To bad for you Marty. Biyombo has established an unoffical no fly zone in his area. He is all elbows and knees when he goes up after boards. Not many want to go into that. DD takes a shit kicking inside but just keeps on coming. JV is pretty strong but when he develops a Lowry mean streak he will be better than he is. This team has more sandpaper than last years. They are tougher. Not dummy tough and talking trash but they don't back off loose balls and they initiate a lot of contact.
    Last edited by Demographic Shift; Thu Dec 31, 2015, 02:07 PM.

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  • JimiCliff
    replied
    Mess wrote: View Post
    lol it happens all the time. The whole reason you penalize someone is because they gained an advantage by using physical contact. It's the definition of a foul. You can't get rid of it or double-penalize it or even double-secret penalize it.
    Intentional fouls do double penalize it. My feeling is, there should be waaaaay more intentional fouls called.

    Leave a comment:


  • slaw
    replied
    Barolt wrote: View Post

    Side note: Was going to pull defensive shooting numbers and touches, but player tracking for last night's game is mysteriously missing. All other games last night are up, ours isn't.
    The game got so ugly it broke the camera lenses and all the stats guys averted their eyes?

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  • Barolt
    replied
    Man, for a game that we won, the advanced stats were bad last night for our team. Only 3 guys with a positive net rating(Scola+11.3, Ross+9.2,Joseph+2.9), only 4 guys above 40% true shooting(Biz 86.2%,Ross 58.3%,Jonas 57.1%,DeMar 55.6%). DeMarre Carroll had a -21.7 net rating, 28.7% true shooting. Lowry had a turnover ratio of 22.9.

    That was the true definition of an ugly win.

    Side note: Was going to pull defensive shooting numbers and touches, but player tracking for last night's game is mysteriously missing. All other games last night are up, ours isn't.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mess
    replied
    JimiCliff wrote: View Post
    The rule should be: if the ref feels like the defender is simply trying to stop a fast break, it's clear path.

    Which opens up the whole issue of: should you EVER be allowed to try to gain an advantage by fouling?
    lol it happens all the time. The whole reason you penalize someone is because they gained an advantage by using physical contact. It's the definition of a foul. You can't get rid of it or double-penalize it or even double-secret penalize it.

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  • JimiCliff
    replied
    The rule should be: if the ref feels like the defender is simply trying to stop a fast break, it's clear path.

    Which opens up the whole issue of: should you EVER be allowed to try to gain an advantage by fouling?

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  • DanH
    replied
    slaw wrote: View Post
    The rule is, if not broken, sub-optimal. There have been dozens of baffling decisions over the years that are technically accurate but clearly wrong in the sense that they run counter to the entire purpose/spirit of the rule. The spirit of the rule is obviously that it should be used when a defender intentionally fouls someone who would've gotten an uncontested dunk/layup. The problem is that the rule is weighted down by a bunch of semantic bullshit that isn't really necessary but was likely included to drag along a few naysayers on the competition committee.
    This is true. It should probably just be a judgment call for the refs, almost everything else is anyway.

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  • slaw
    replied
    Mess wrote: View Post
    Wasn't there a pretty bad clear path call during last years' series vs Washington too?
    The rule is, if not broken, sub-optimal. There have been dozens of baffling decisions over the years that are technically accurate but clearly wrong in the sense that they run counter to the entire purpose/spirit of the rule. The spirit of the rule is obviously that it should be used when a defender intentionally fouls someone who would've gotten an uncontested dunk/layup. The problem is that the rule is weighted down by a bunch of semantic bullshit that isn't really necessary but was likely included to drag along a few naysayers on the competition committee.

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  • Mess
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post
    It's actually pretty simple. If there are no defenders between you and the basket, and you get fouled from behind to stop the easy fast break, clear path. If you are beside, or making a move past your defender when the foul occurs, no clear path.

    There are other rules (such as: if the refs judge a player beside you could reasonable have gotten between you and the basket it gets called off; foul has to occur after your own free throw line) but that's the jist. Seemed to me Lowry was still breaking past on that rebound when he was fouled so no clear path.
    Wasn't there a pretty bad clear path call during last years' series vs Washington too?

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  • consmap
    replied
    Scraptor wrote: View Post
    How did no one like the OP? Y'all are some ungrateful dinosaurs!

    Thanks for the winning streak consmap!
    Don't mention it. I will always be here when you need me.

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  • DanH
    replied
    thead wrote: View Post
    can someone please explain to me what a fucking clear path foul is because after this game I dont know anymore
    It's actually pretty simple. If there are no defenders between you and the basket, and you get fouled from behind to stop the easy fast break, clear path. If you are beside, or making a move past your defender when the foul occurs, no clear path.

    There are other rules (such as: if the refs judge a player beside you could reasonable have gotten between you and the basket it gets called off; foul has to occur after your own free throw line) but that's the jist. Seemed to me Lowry was still breaking past on that rebound when he was fouled so no clear path.

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  • slaw
    replied
    JimiCliff wrote: View Post
    They really need to work on that rule
    How about just going back to the good old intentional foul? No, instead we need three different fouls and 7,000 words of legalese no one understands to describe...... a fucking intentional foul. And they still can't get it right. Damn lawyers ruin everything.

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  • slaw
    replied
    Lots of no-shows tonight: Joseph, Patterson, Carroll, Lowry, Scola. Good thing the refs stepped up and chipped in. Raps get one back for the couple of games they've let slip this year.

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