Building a contender on a knife's edge?

[Axel]

Getting markieff wouldn't elevate the team even if he got his mind right.

If you're talking about power forwards that might legitimately take this team to the next level (and are somewhat obtainable in an ideal wolrd): e.g. Bosh, ibaka, horford, cousins, etc I don't see why these guys would clash with demar

Yes, those guys would. However we are very unlikely to find one of those guys, so again, with the premise of improving the ceiling of this team, we are more limited in our options that we would be if we had a true max player. That will make DD overpaid in a sense.

[Eliza]

On what teams and next to which players is a traditional post up PF an option anymore?

Like, really. Stretch PFs are more and more becoming the norm, and don't we need a stretch PF to suit JV anyway?

[JWash]

Yes, those guys would. However we are very unlikely to find one of those guys, so again, with the premise of improving the ceiling of this team, we are more limited in our options that we would be if we had a true max player. That will make DD overpaid in a sense.

I don't really understand your point. So who is this inside based power forward that would raise the ceiling of the team but can't play with demar?

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[special1]

Yeah it's supremely limiting to have to play a 3-D guy, a stretch 4 and a PG who can shoot because of DD. No other team has to do that to make their system work. /sarcasm

(I bet they'd all gladly play them no matter who was at the 2).

I was thinking the same thing.

Teams need those kind of players no matter who their SG is.


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[DanH]

Yes, those guys would. However we are very unlikely to find one of those guys, so again, with the premise of improving the ceiling of this team, we are more limited in our options that we would be if we had a true max player. That will make DD overpaid in a sense.

Both Lowry and JV will be most effective with a floor spreading PF. Why is it a concern that DD is most effective with a floor spreading PF?

Of all the concerns to have about DD's game, this one seems odd. All players have ideal fits. Heck, DD is clearly capable of playing well beside non-shooting PF's, he's been stuck beside Scola for a huge chunk of this season and has been having the best season of his career.

[Axel]

1. "keep growing": like really! How can there be any doubt in anyone's mind that DeMar will keep improving and be even better than the all-star, top 3 SG that he is already?

2. "uniqueness": was going to say much the same. Against opponent defenses, does the team have an advantage by attempting to duplicate line-ups that every other line-up the defense faces every night, or defenses having to face a unique player,,,, that produces, consistently, and efficiently?

smh at continued attempts to put down the value of DeMar, our all-star SG. Can't build around him because a contender needs blah blah blah blah. Contenders have always come in different forms, and continue to come in different forms. Two years ago, who would have said you can build a contender with a 2nd round pick, 6'7" PF/C? Any great basketball minds here were saying that 2 years ago?

Your points 1 & 2 seem to be blatantly ignoring the ideas that were brought forward by the article, the OP and general basketball history. He is producing at a great level, but the story is in how he gets there and the impact that has on what the team can do.

Your last paragraph is pure malarkey. This isn't an attempt to put down Demar, but rather to have an intelligent discussion about how a recent DD positive article's themes relate to the larger team concept.

Oh and if you're looking for Draymond Green posts - I was a big supporter of him at the draft and even I have been blown away at how far he has come.

[Axel]

Both Lowry and JV will be most effective with a floor spreading PF. Why is it a concern that DD is most effective with a floor spreading PF?

Of all the concerns to have about DD's game, this one seems odd. All players have ideal fits. Heck, DD is clearly capable of playing well beside non-shooting PF's, he's been stuck beside Scola for a huge chunk of this season and has been having the best season of his career.

Because it isn't about ideal fit as much as required in DDs case perhaps.

Dirk can still be Dirk, even without proper styled teammates. Are you confident in DD to continue to excel without the specific team construct requirements?

[Axel]

I don't really understand your point. So who is this inside based power forward that would raise the ceiling of the team but can't play with demar?

I don't have one and that isn't the point being made. But wouldn't you feel better knowing that any kind of PF upgrade would improve the team vs only a stretch PF to allow DD to maintain the value at which he is about to get paid.

[DanH]

Because it isn't about ideal fit as much as required in DDs case perhaps.

Dirk can still be Dirk, even without proper styled teammates. Are you confident in DD to continue to excel without the specific team construct requirements?

Again, this season is his best by far in his career and he's doing with a large chunk of the season playing beside some of the worst player pairings you could imagine for him (JV, Scola and JJ in the frontcourt is my particular favourite, though he's played a lot beside CoJo as well, who is not exactly a prominent long range threat).

[Barolt]

To pose a question to DeMar's defenders on here, wouldn't you consider a limiting factor that Tony Allen, who is probably the premier perimeter defender of this generation, could never be acquired by our team as long as we have DeMar?

[Scraptor]

It's a valid criticism. It's why many of the DeMar supporters like myself have said that DeMar is a third option (maybe second now) on a contending team.

The problem is that our avenues for securing a tier one superstar are even more limited now than before we locked in DeMarre and TRoss. Re-sign DeMar to the max and we're nearly jammed.

We come face to face with a reality that has been repeated ad nauseam by the tankers: securing superstar talent in a less-attractive market is easiest through the draft. The CBA's artificial max forces markets like us to overpay secondary stars, which squeezes out productive cap space. Which is not to say we're doomed. Only that if the margin of error for Masai is slim, it's a situation of his own making.

[Snooch]

Who was Miami's PF, the year they won the chip with Shaq? Wade, though he was elite is also described as a non shooting SG, so I think the comparison of he to DD can be made. Did they have a shooting PF that year? For the life of me I can only think of Udonis Haslem as their PF at that time.

wade was tonnes better than Demar at pretty much everything.

And Wade had shaq.

and had

kapono and Posey and Walker and williams....all capable 3pt shooters.

[Axel]

Again, this season is his best by far in his career and he's doing with a large chunk of the season playing beside some of the worst player pairings you could imagine for him (JV, Scola and JJ in the frontcourt is my particular favourite, though he's played a lot beside CoJo as well, who is not exactly a prominent long range threat).

Because Scola has been playing the stretch role with the starters.

DD and CoJo play with Patterson. No top line combo of them with Scola.

Don't think we have enough JJ minutes to make a credible sample size.

[Axel]

Which is not to say we're doomed. Only that if the margin of error for Masai is slim, it's a situation of his own making.

This is so nicely worded and fits perfectly with the OP. The entire essence of the thread summed up.

[JWash]

To pose a question to DeMar's defenders on here, wouldn't you consider a limiting factor that Tony Allen, who is probably the premier perimeter defender of this generation, could never be acquired by our team as long as we have DeMar?

We wouldn't be able to start lowry with curry either what kind of argument is that? Allen is a shooting guard

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