Why Not to Spend - Cheapskate Edition

[OldSkoolCool]

There could actually be plenty depending on who spends, and how much they spend in 2016 FA. The cap is set for another 20M jump, so a team would need to just be 5M under the cap prior to the jump to have that much room. That's why basically every single team in the league has a ton of cap space the offseason, because of that jump, and another one is happening in 2017.

Actually they would have to be 8.7 mil under the cap prior to the jump

[OldSkoolCool]

Can I also ask, what is the correct time to spend? Which offseason do you think will be a good year to spend money in?

When there is a player worth paying the max to

Otherwise 2017 on will be better. Tough to predict other teams spending habits (when they like to be at the cap) so that you can magically unload a 28.7 mil contract

[JWash]

The worth of superstars is greater than the max and has been well documented.

You lumped in Conley and Horford with Durant and Conley with Horford, so I'm just curious about what your definition is.

Ya teams love to spend up to the cap. Sounds great in theory that we will have lots of trade partners but it's not really how the NBA works.

27 teams this season are above the cap

Some teams will have cap room to go after 2017 free agents and we may be able to send DD to them...or they could just give the max to someone else who is better

Remember the underlying assumption is that DD is not actually worth 24.5% of the cap...teams won't just want that

DD is worth that much at the level he's playing at.

[OldSkoolCool]

Really option 3 to me sounds like the "anything but DD" option. Where the future may or may not be better, but as long as DD isn't a part of it, that's something to work with. That's just the way it reads to me but hey, whatever.

Really to be option 3 is moronic. Pick a path. Re-sign DD and look to build on top of/with/by trading around what we have now. Or blow the whole fucking thing up. This idea to let DD walk and then see if we can still build a decent team sounds very treadmill-y to me.

- Giving away an asset for nothing, check.
- Still don't have a ton of flexibility in FA to make any improvements, check.
- Logical step forward to contention not evident, check.
- Lowered talent level of the team, check.

Horrible plan. If you aren't happy with the state of the team in the offseason and think it can't be improved to a contending level through any realistic means.... blow. it. up. At the end of the day the problem is that we don't have a superstar, so if you're letting DD go because you want to try a new direction to get to contention, then let that contention be through tearing it down and tanking for a superstar. Because you're only going to be that much less desirable to free agents the following year with an expiring and aging Kyle Lowry and hopefully all-star level Jonas as your only pitch to FAs.

- First one I get. It sucks. Fans will forget in 6 months
- Flexibility is huge in 2017. The plan isn't "don't resign DD so we can spend 8 billion on all the free agents immediately" derp
- Logical step. New coach. New system. Build around top Center. Again, not going down the same broken record path does not mean we won't get better. People afraid of the unknown...try waving your hand behind your head
- JV is more talented. With the opportunity to let that talent breathe I don't honestly think it will be lowered. Also add in the development of the young guys

[OldSkoolCool]

You lumped in Conley and Horford with Durant and Conley with Horford, so I'm just curious about what your definition is.



DD is worth that much at the level he's playing at.

1) Conley is really freaking good. So is Horford (also a big guy who inherently gets paid more)

2) Assumption is that DD does not produce, or the team doesn't succeed in the playoffs for the third straight year, and therefore he wouldn't be worth the max (or 24.5%)

Reading comprehension

[JWash]

When there is a player worth paying the max to

Otherwise 2017 on will be better. Tough to predict other teams spending habits (when they like to be at the cap) so that you can magically unload a 28.7 mil contract

So you just don't spend money in free agency, not even to retain your own players until a superstar becomes available to you?

- First one I get. It sucks. Fans will forget in 6 months
- Flexibility is huge in 2017. The plan isn't "don't resign DD so we can spend 8 billion on all the free agents immediately" derp
- Logical step. New coach. New system. Build around top Center. Again, not going down the same broken record path does not mean we won't get better. People afraid of the unknown...try waving your hand behind your head
- JV is more talented. With the opportunity to let that talent breathe I don't honestly think it will be lowered. Also add in the development of the young guys

New coach, new system are all possible with DeRozan here. So is using Valanciunas more and seeing what we have in him as well as the development of young prospects and players. Letting DD walk does not add any more young prospects/players or assets to the team, so it's not like you'd have a freshly stocked cupboard by allowing him to leave.

[KeonClark]

1) Conley is really freaking good. So is Horford (also a big guy who inherently gets paid more)

2) Assumption is that DD does not produce, or the team doesn't succeed in the playoffs for the third straight year, and therefore he wouldn't be worth the max (or 24.5%)

Reading comprehension

That's a pretty large "assumption", going off the premise that we flame out early. Lowry has not faded like he did (should have started about 3 weeks ago going off last year), and he's better than ever. Demar is better than ever. When Carroll is back we have a veteran swiss army knife. I would be closer to assuming Demar does more of the same like he always has in the playoffs, which is play to the same level that he did during the regular season, just with a better supporting cast around him.

[OldSkoolCool]

So you just don't spend money in free agency, not even to retain your own players until a superstar becomes available to you?

Yes you do, you just don't overspend for talent (at any level)

Other teams will operate under this assumption as well

Which will mean that they likely won't have 28.7 mil to wheel and deal in 2017...which will mean we are looking at taking back bad contracts....

New coach, new system are all possible with DeRozan here. So is using Valanciunas more and seeing what we have in him as well as the development of young prospects and players. Letting DD walk does not add any more young prospects/players or assets to the team, so it's not like you'd have a freshly stocked cupboard by allowing him to leave.

No it won't

Please give me an example where the highest usage player on a team took a step back in his prime to let a largely unproven player become the focal point of his offense that:

Wasn't injured
Wasn't traded

[JWash]

1) Conley is really freaking good. So is Horford (also a big guy who inherently gets paid more)

2) Assumption is that DD does not produce, or the team doesn't succeed in the playoffs for the third straight year, and therefore he wouldn't be worth the max (or 24.5%)

Reading comprehension

1.) DeRozan is better than Conley across the board this season.

2.) I know what the assumption is. And my point was that it would make more sense to blow up the team than to just let DD walk for nothing and try to retool with a new coach and system. Clearly if we were to flame out in the first round again, there's a bigger problem than just DeMar DeRozan.

3.) Chill out on insulting tone.

[OldSkoolCool]

That's a pretty large "assumption", going off the premise that we flame out early. Lowry has not faded like he did (should have started about 3 weeks ago going off last year), and he's better than ever. Demar is better than ever. When Carroll is back we have a veteran swiss army knife. I would be closer to assuming Demar does more of the same like he always has in the playoffs, which is play to the same level that he did during the regular season, just with a better supporting cast around him.

But what if we win largely not due to DD, but instead Lowry, Carroll, JV

Do you pay max for that?

[JWash]

Yes you do, you just don't overspend for talent (at any level)

Other teams will operate under this assumption as well

Which will mean that they likely won't have 28.7 mil to wheel and deal in 2017...which will mean we are looking at taking back bad contracts....

No what you said is that this is not the year to spend money, and we should not spend until a max level player is available. So basically you don't want to spend money on any player who might be expensive unless it's a max player. So what would you do with Lowry next season then? Let him walk? How then do you replace his talent as well as what you've lost in DeRozan? You don't have high draft picks because you supposedly don't plan to be tanking. You're not going to pitch a superstar free agent to join a team that is losing its highest profile players and is not elite.

No it won't

Please give me an example where the highest usage player on a team took a step back in his prime to let a largely unproven player become the focal point of his offense that:

Wasn't injured
Wasn't traded

Klay Thompson's a good one. Young player like Jonas, he was productive prior to their championship season but not yet a proven star, his usage went up from around where Jonas' is in 2013-14 under Marc Jackson to where DeRozan's is in 2014-15 under Steve Kerr. He was incorporated more into the offense because of better coaching and a superior offensive system. That's the most recent example I can think of and it's a fairly recent one I'd say.

[JWash]

But what if we win largely not due to DD, but instead Lowry, Carroll, JV

Do you pay max for that?

What if DD tears his ACL in game 1 *knocks on wood*? Do you pay max for that?

I don't understand the point of these what if scenarios...

[JWash]

What if DeRozan puts up 40ppg in the first round and drops 60 in game 7 of the second round against the Bulls and we go to the conference finals?

Can you see how playing this game does not make sense? There are so many different things that could happen.

What we know is right now DD is playing at a level where a 25M per year deal would be legitimately justifiable to pay for him, and would also not be a problem to trade later on. Trying to operate under some vague assumption that he tails off, disappears in the playoffs or the team just flat-out sucks is just throwing darts at a dart board while blindfolded.

[KeonClark]

I understand now..this thread could have saved being beaten around the bush and just been titled "I don't want Derozan on the team next year"

[JWash]

I understand now..this thread could have saved being beaten around the bush and just been titled "I don't want Derozan on the team next year"

Welp... at least somebody said it.