Primer wrote:
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tDotted wrote: View PostOn/Off is a much better stat to look at than individual DRTG. Cavs are better with him off the court.
Edit: I'm looking at nba.com/stats and they have Love +4.2 on court, and +1.2 off court. Where did you see that the team is better with him off the court?Last edited by Primer; Tue Jan 19, 2016, 07:09 PM.
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Chr1s1anL wrote: View PostInstead of using stats. Next game watch Kevin Love closely on D.
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Primer wrote: View PostI just said I watch some of their games and I disagree. The stats back me up. The defense was not any better when Thompson subbed in. The main culprit for the shitty defense was the guards, who got torched all game and couldn't guard the perimeter for shit.@Chr1st1anL
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Primer wrote: View Post
Edit: I'm looking at nba.com/stats and they have Love +4.2 on court, and +1.2 off court. Where did you see that the team is better with him off the court?
Cavs this year are +11 with him on offense and -2 on defense. So the Cavs overall are +9 with him.
I'm using BBRef. For Opponent ORTG in the On/Off section, the number's value is meant to be inversed. For example: The Cavs' opponents are held to an ORTG of 101.1 with LeBron on the court and 105.4 with him off.. yet, it will read as a -4.3 on/off rating. The 'correct' value would be +4.3.. since he's a positive on that end.
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Here are the five worst players in the league defending the pick and roll man per stats.nba.com, minimum 30 possessions:
1. Jonas Valanciunas
2. Kenneth Faried
3. Cody Zeller
4. Meyers Leonard
5. Kevin Love
I have no idea how pairing Jonas and Love is a good idea.
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Scraptor wrote: View PostHere are the five worst players in the league defending the pick and roll man per stats.nba.com, minimum 30 possessions:
1. Jonas Valanciunas
2. Kenneth Faried
3. Cody Zeller
4. Meyers Leonard
5. Kevin Love
I have no idea how pairing Jonas and Love is a good idea.
That's pretty damning of the potential Love-JV combo lol...
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Scraptor wrote: View PostHere are the five worst players in the league defending the pick and roll man per stats.nba.com, minimum 30 possessions:
1. Jonas Valanciunas
2. Kenneth Faried
3. Cody Zeller
4. Meyers Leonard
5. Kevin Love
I have no idea how pairing Jonas and Love is a good idea.@Chr1st1anL
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tDotted wrote: View PostCavs last year with Love were +4.8 on offense and +3 on defense. (This was with James Jones getting plenty of minutes at the 4 though). So the Cavs were +7.8 overall with Love in 2015.
Cavs this year are +11 with him on offense and -2 on defense. So the Cavs overall are +9 with him.
I'm using BBRef. For Opponent ORTG in the On/Off section, the number's value is meant to be inversed. For example: The Cavs' opponents are held to an ORTG of 101.1 with LeBron on the court and 105.4 with him off.. yet, it will read as a -4.3 on/off rating. The 'correct' value would be +4.3.. since he's a positive on that end.
Now this season, the Cavs are 9 points better with Love on the court than off, so how the fuck is the argument they're better without Love? The -2 difference on defense is hardly significant, but the +11 on offense is very significant.
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Primer wrote: View PostSo last season, the Cavs were better on defense with Love on the floor. Shoots the whole "Love isn't good at defense" argument right out of the water.
Now this season, the Cavs are 9 points better with Love on the court than off, so how the fuck is the argument they're better without Love? The -2 difference on defense is hardly significant, but the +11 on offense is very significant.
I dunno about anyone else, but all I was saying was that the Cavs were better without Love on defense this season. That was the point of the discussion right? I don't think anyone questioned his offense. Another thing... How are going to say the -2 difference isn't significant but then say the +3 means he isn't a bad defender?
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tDotted wrote: View PostCavs only had one big coming off the bench (TT) meaning James Jones had to spend a lot of time at the 4 spot. Who do you think is better at defending 4s?
I dunno about anyone else, but all I was saying was that the Cavs were better without Love on defense this season. That was the point of the discussion right? I don't think anyone questioned his offense. Another thing... How are going to say the -2 difference isn't significant but then say the +3 means he isn't a bad defender?
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Scraptor wrote: View PostHere are the five worst players in the league defending the pick and roll man per stats.nba.com, minimum 30 possessions:
1. Jonas Valanciunas
2. Kenneth Faried
3. Cody Zeller
4. Meyers Leonard
5. Kevin Love
I have no idea how pairing Jonas and Love is a good idea.
1. Jonas Valanciunas
2. Kenneth Faried
3. Jahil Okafor
4. Mason Plumlee
5. Luis Scola
6. Karl-Anthony Towns
7. Nikola Vucevic
8. Meyers Leonard
9. Hassan Whiteside
10. Robin Lopez
11. Kevin Love
12. Andre Drummond
13. Cody Zeller
14. Al Horford
15. Jared Sullinger
... Love is at 11. Horford who many want to pay the max to is 14th.
Funny enough Scola is at 5th (now) and he's already being paired with JV as a starter.
*EDIT - I know what I did wrong. I didn't order it by "Percentile". Here is the revised bottom 10 in this stat:
1. Jonas Valanciunas
2. Kenneth Faried
3. Cody Zeller
4. Meyers Leonard
5. Karl-Anthony Towns
6. Kevin Love
7. Luis Scola
8. Mason Plumlee
9. Hassan Whiteside
10. Al Horford
Scola is 7th to Love's 6th. Horford isn't too far at 10th.Last edited by planetmars; Wed Jan 20, 2016, 10:28 AM.
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Scraptor wrote: View PostHere are the five worst players in the league defending the pick and roll man per stats.nba.com, minimum 30 possessions:
1. Jonas Valanciunas
2. Kenneth Faried
3. Cody Zeller
4. Meyers Leonard
5. Kevin Love
I have no idea how pairing Jonas and Love is a good idea.
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The issue I have with P&R defense stats though is it's really not up to just 1 guy. Pick and rolls are like the epitome of requiring a full team effort to stop defensively. For example. If the coach's gameplan is to have both guys step up on the ball-handler (i.e. the bigman hedging). That means it's a third player's responsibility to make that rotation and stop the roller from getting an easy basket. In a situation like that, do the point scored count against the big involved in the pick and roll? Or the one who was supposed to make the rotation?
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