what one area or position do the raps need to improve in to beat Cleveland head to head

[jimmie]

Woah, Whiteside is not the 2nd best center in the league.

not even close.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/12/...hts-miami-heat

[DanH]

I use BBRef. No idea why it's calculated differently in different places.

They are describing radically different things (they are different stats). BBall-ref is an individual DRTG based on how often a player gets a stop on their individual check. NBA.com shows on-court defensive rating (points allowed per 100 possessions by the team when the player is on the floor).

[Primer]

Woah, Whiteside is not the 2nd best center in the league.

What does your center rankings look like? Bare in mind, I have Pau and Boogie as PF since that's where they predominantly play. The rankings are debatable, but Whiteside is certainly top 5, and certainly worth a max deal.

[Barolt]

What does your center rankings look like? Bare in mind, I have Pau and Boogie as PF since that's where they predominantly play. The rankings are debatable, but Whiteside is certainly top 5, and certainly worth a max deal.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...r_by=ws_per_48

That's a good place to start. Guys who're averaging 16/10 per 36 minutes. Then you have to account for defense. Either way, top 5 is probably(excluding Pau and Boogie):

Drummond, JV, KAT, Duncan, Howard in some order. I may have forgotten someone. JV looks awfully good statistically though.

[Primer]

They are describing radically different things (they are different stats). BBall-ref is an individual DRTG based on how often a player gets a stop on their individual check. NBA.com shows on-court defensive rating (points allowed per 100 possessions by the team when the player is on the floor).

They should name them something differently then, or everyone on these forums should start speficying which DRtg they're talking about whenever they say DRtg. I'm assuming the ORtg's are different too? Anyways, his NBA.com DRtg seems pretty good to me.

As for anyone claiming Whiteside isn't an elite defender, I'd say you're nuts. He leads the NBA in blocks by a country mile with 3.9 per game. Anyone thinking that doesn't affect the opposing teams offense is once again nuts. He's 5th in the NBA in rebounding while playing less minutes than everyone ranked above him. He also fouls less than all the guys (all centers) who slightly outrebound him. He's 3rd in the league in DREB%. He's 7th amongst centers in DRPM. He's 2nd amongst centers in DWS. He's 3rd amongst centers in WS/48. Dude is really good.

[Primer]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...r_by=ws_per_48

That's a good place to start. Guys who're averaging 16/10 per 36 minutes. Then you have to account for defense. Either way, top 5 is probably(excluding Pau and Boogie):

Drummond, JV, KAT, Duncan, Howard in some order. I may have forgotten someone. JV looks awfully good statistically though.

Why add in the point per game qualifier, it needlessly excludes Whiteside and Jordan and probably some more good players? Why not straight up look at WS/48? He's the 3rd best center there. I have no doubt he could score 16 per game or more if given more shots, but Miami doesn't need him to do that.

[jimmie]

They should name them something differently then, or everyone on these forums should start speficying which DRtg they're talking about whenever they say DRtg. I'm assuming the ORtg's are different too? Anyways, his NBA.com DRtg seems pretty good to me.

As for anyone claiming Whiteside isn't an elite defender, I'd say you're nuts. He leads the NBA in blocks by a country mile with 3.9 per game. Anyone thinking that doesn't affect the opposing teams offense is once again nuts. He's 5th in the NBA in rebounding while playing less minutes than everyone ranked above him. He also fouls less than all the guys (all centers) who slightly outrebound him. He's 3rd in the league in DREB%. He's 7th amongst centers in DRPM. He's 2nd amongst centers in DWS. He's 3rd amongst centers in WS/48. Dude is really good.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/12/...hts-miami-heat

[Primer]

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/12/...hts-miami-heat

That article basically says he's correcting all the mistakes now and playing a lot better. Did you just read the headline?

[jimmie]

That article basically says he's correcting all the mistakes now and playing a lot better. Did you just read the headline?

Haha, yeah, you got me. No, the article also says he's not a very good team defensive player right now, needs to learn when to help and when not to, understand floor spacing, etc. rather than concentrating on blocks. Far cry from top-5 in the league, max-player territory. If you were to take the negative view, you might question whether those are things he can learn, and whether his concentration on individual stats (he's well-known for his, er, outspoken pride in that aspect of his game) will hinder his desire to play a team game. But you concentrate on whatever props up your spot, no worries.

[Primer]

Haha, yeah, you got me. No, the article also says he's not a very good team defensive player right now, needs to learn when to help and when not to, understand floor spacing, etc. rather than concentrating on blocks. Far cry from top-5 in the league, max-player territory. If you were to take the negative view, you might question whether those are things he can learn, and whether his concentration on individual stats (he's well-known for his, er, outspoken pride in that aspect of his game) will hinder his desire to play a team game. But you concentrate on whatever props up your spot, no worries.

You posted the article man, I just took the time to read it all the way to the bottom.

[JWash]

Primer I do think Whiteside is a legitimate game-changer on defense.

I just don't see him as the 2nd best center in the league.

[tDotted]

Why add in the point per game qualifier, it needlessly excludes Whiteside and Jordan and probably some more good players? Why not straight up look at WS/48? He's the 3rd best center there. I have no doubt he could score 16 per game or more if given more shots, but Miami doesn't need him to do that.

You might be overrating his defense a little, considering Spoelstra sits him late in games to bolster the D.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...r_by=ws_per_48

That's a good place to start. Guys who're averaging 16/10 per 36 minutes. Then you have to account for defense. Either way, top 5 is probably(excluding Pau and Boogie):

Drummond, JV, KAT, Duncan, Howard in some order. I may have forgotten someone. JV looks awfully good statistically though.

http://bkref.com/tiny/pq5tZ

That's probably a better filter (centers only). Not sure why KAT doesn't show up, but he would place right under Drummond in WS/48. TD would be 5th. (Considered Forward-Centers by bbref and not Centers or Center-Forwards. Weird)

[Primer]

You might be overrating his defense a little, considering Spoelstra sits him late in games to bolster the D.



http://bkref.com/tiny/pq5tZ

That's probably a better filter (centers only). Not sure why KAT doesn't show up, but he would place right under Drummond in WS/48. TD would be 5th. (Considered Forward-Centers by bbref and not Centers or Center-Forwards. Weird)

I don't understand how Kanter's WS/48 is so high.

[Barolt]

I don't understand how Kanter's WS/48 is so high.

Really not that complicated. Win shares don't compensate for defense very well, and he's elite offensively.

[Primer]

Really not that complicated. Win shares don't compensate for defense very well, and he's elite offensively.

Obviously has something to do with playing for OKC as well, since his WS/48 in Utah was not good.