Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Game #52: Toronto Raptors 112 - Minnesota Timberwolves 117

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Primer wrote: View Post
    Minnesota is proof tanking doesn't work. Two #1 overall picks from draft classes everyone agreed were can't miss, yet they fucking suck.
    This short-term mentality is why people don't understand tanking. Building through the draft is not an instant fix. It's about developing young, franchise-level talent that will grow together for a long-term championship contention window.

    You play your young players a ton of minutes, and you lose a lot of games, but those losses are an investment in the players' development. All of the Timberpups are seeing a myriad of situations and pressure scenarios where they will make mistakes--and learn from them.

    Andrew Wiggins is only 7 months older than Bruno Caboclo, yet he already has more field goal attempts in his career than Jonas Valanciunas. Think about that.

    The TWolves give him the opportunity to do this: https://streamable.com/7ebf

    Even if he screwed up--which he didn't--he's learning what it's like to be in a close, tight game, and to have to make something happen.

    The TWolves have a better winning % this year with rookie KAT/sophomore Wiggins than the Thunder did with rookie Westbrook/sophomore Durant. They're going to be more than fine.

    Comment


    • #17
      And no one would say the Wolves are done. What they've done is given themselves the base talent they can build around. They still need to find complementary players, manage their cap effectively, balance youth with veteran leadership and get a decent coach to see any real returns. But their margin for error is much bigger for having those two young talents locked in for years.
      twitter.com/dhackett1565

      Comment


      • #18
        Scraptor wrote: View Post
        Andrew Wiggins is only 7 months older than Bruno Caboclo, yet he already has more field goal attempts in his career than Jonas Valanciunas. Think about that.
        well now i'm even more annoyed

        Comment


        • #19
          hotfuzz wrote: View Post
          Their coach is Sam Mitchell...
          ...?
          2006-07 NBA Coach of the Year

          Comment


          • #20
            SamMitchells wrote: View Post
            ...?
            You're not very good Sam

            Comment


            • #21
              There's no definitive strategy that "works" in the NBA.

              The Wolves have just proven that capitalizing on trade assets at the right time (Love for Wiggins), luck (getting Towns, 75% chance that they didn't get him) and good drafting (selecting LaVine and Shabazz Muhammad in the teens) can lead to the accumulation top tier talent.

              I mean if the Warriors accepted Klay+Barnes for Love, they're probably a better team in 2014-15, so they don't get Towns and they're stuck building around a 2nd tier all-star, a high level role player and a bunch of aging vets. And Golden State probably doesn't have a title.

              So there's no proof that any "strategy" works or doesn't work. We're currently a top team due to a "tanking" move in trading Gay resulting in us actually making the team better and allowing for the emergence of an all-star backcourt (particularly Lowry who was relegated to 3rd banana prior to the Gay move). Now we have someone else tanking for us (New York/Denver) and a deep roster.

              A team like Golden State never tanked, lucked into Curry at 7 because everyone thought he was an undersized 2, Klay at 11 and made shrewd trades for Bogut and to free up cap space for Andre Iguodala.

              OKC on the other hand dealt away and let their top players go to tank in 3 consecutive years, having KD fall into their laps, making an incredibly smart reach for Westbrook and watching Memphis take Thabust while they scooped up Harden and later Ibaka.

              So it's stupid to say that tanking/building through the draft doesn't work or asset collection doesn't work or building through FA or trade doesn't work, when not only are there examples of all these strategies both succeeding and failing, but often times teams employ several of them to succeed (DeRozan and Valanciunas are 9th and 5th picks and Ross was 8th in case anyone forgot).

              Hate when people try to put ceilings on teams or say that others have unlimited ceilings. Yeah if all or some of Minnesota's prospects reach their full potential they could be freaking amazing. But then I read here how we're done and we're capped out and can't get better. What happens if we select the best or 2nd best prospect in the 2016 draft and Durant says he wants to play here? Are we still capped out then?

              Roster building is so much more fluid and diverse and it's dumb to say any one strategy is better than another.

              Comment


              • #22
                they did have a near decade of floundering before the past two years here. it isn't like they blew it up and then bam.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Miekenstien wrote: View Post
                  they did have a near decade of floundering before the past two years here. it isn't like they blew it up and then bam.
                  Yeah people like to sort of brush this part to the side lol.

                  2006: 7th pick
                  2007: 7th pick
                  2008: 3rd pick (traded down to 5)
                  2009: 5th and 6th picks
                  2010: 4th pick
                  2011: 2nd pick
                  2012: Traded pick away
                  2013: 9th pick (traded down to 14)

                  Prior to Wiggins and literally nothing to show for it, not a playoff appearance, nothing. Minnesota hasn't made the playoffs since 2004 when they went to the conference finals, that was LeBron's rookie season think about that for a sec.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Primer wrote: View Post
                    Minnesota is proof tanking doesn't work. Two #1 overall picks from draft classes everyone agreed were can't miss, yet they fucking suck.
                    Quick history lesson: Russ + KD didn't make the playoffs until their 2nd season together. LeBron didn't make the playoffs until his 3rd. Lesson over

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      JWash wrote: View Post
                      Yeah people like to sort of brush this part to the side lol.

                      2006: 7th pick
                      2007: 7th pick
                      2008: 3rd pick (traded down to 5)
                      2009: 5th and 6th picks
                      2010: 4th pick
                      2011: 2nd pick
                      2012: Traded pick away
                      2013: 9th pick (traded down to 14)

                      Prior to Wiggins and literally nothing to show for it, not a playoff appearance, nothing. Minnesota hasn't made the playoffs since 2004 when they went to the conference finals, that was LeBron's rookie season think about that for a sec.
                      Well, sure, but they weren't tanking. They were terribly managed. There is a difference, and if you are terribly managed, it doesn't matter what strategy you take.
                      twitter.com/dhackett1565

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Kahn was a terrible GM. A few right decisions and Minny looks much different. They probably will never attract free agents (didn't do it with KG), so the draft and shrewd trades is what can turn them into contenders. And they have really screwed up the draft until recently (when it's been a no-brainer).

                        Wiggins in my opinion is a tad overrated. Doesn't have the defensive chops that I thought he'd have. He's still really young though. AB was a terrible choice to pick with Wiggins for Love. If they took anyone else, they'd look better.

                        KAT looks like a beast though.

                        Rubio is not a guy that wins games. He's like Rondo. Needs great talent around him to compensate for his short comings (shooting/spacing). If Minny moved Rubio and got a better more refined PG, they'll have 3/5ths of their core setup for the future. They should really consider drafting Murray to pair up with Wiggins/Kat.. and then look to trade Rubio for a veteran caliber wing or for bench depth.

                        But I digress..

                        This should be an easy win, but it's the last game before the all-star weekend and against an inferior team. Probably going to be more difficult then it should be.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          This is Toronto, we can't even tank right. If by some stroke of moronic luck we did fall ass backwards into decent picks we would still be flailing with the modern equivalent of Arujo, Radojevic, and Joey.

                          We ought to thank the based god Dolan for being mad af when he hears MU is calling.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            planetmars wrote: View Post
                            Kahn was a terrible GM. A few right decisions and Minny looks much different. They probably will never attract free agents (didn't do it with KG), so the draft and shrewd trades is what can turn them into contenders. And they have really screwed up the draft until recently (when it's been a no-brainer).

                            Wiggins in my opinion is a tad overrated. Doesn't have the defensive chops that I thought he'd have. He's still really young though. AB was a terrible choice to pick with Wiggins for Love. If they took anyone else, they'd look better.

                            KAT looks like a beast though.

                            Rubio is not a guy that wins games. He's like Rondo. Needs great talent around him to compensate for his short comings (shooting/spacing). If Minny moved Rubio and got a better more refined PG, they'll have 3/5ths of their core setup for the future. They should really consider drafting Murray to pair up with Wiggins/Kat.. and then look to trade Rubio for a veteran caliber wing or for bench depth.

                            But I digress..

                            This should be an easy win, but it's the last game before the all-star weekend and against an inferior team. Probably going to be more difficult then it should be.
                            In general I agree but you are way off base with Rubio. Besides Garnett, who has played only 500 minutes, Rubio is the only guy on the team with a positive net rating. With him on the floor the Wolves outscore their average opponent. He's very, very good. Sure, you need wings and forwards that shoot if he's playing for you, but what team doesn't need those things nowadays?
                            twitter.com/dhackett1565

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              tDotted wrote: View Post
                              Quick history lesson: Russ + KD didn't make the playoffs until their 2nd season together. LeBron didn't make the playoffs until his 3rd. Lesson over
                              Not to mention the bulls didn't finish .500 until Jordans 4th year
                              It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                DanH wrote: View Post
                                Well, sure, but they weren't tanking. They were terribly managed. There is a difference, and if you are terribly managed, it doesn't matter what strategy you take.
                                I didn't say that they weren't terribly managed, they obviously were especially from 2009-2013, Kahn made BC look like a savant. Just pointing out that it's not as simple as just getting high draft picks.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X