Game #52: Toronto Raptors 112 - Minnesota Timberwolves 117

[tDotted]

We don't play inside-out, that's not our offense. Our two best offensive weapons are in the backcourt.

I'm also not sure how you can logically say that DeRozan forced his game last night. He took 1 more shot than he normally does and scored 12 more points. 35 points on 11-19, 3-3 from 3 and 10-13 from the line with 4 assists and 1 turnover. But yeah "forced (his) game". Come on.

Can't just say he didn't force his game by looking at the box score. Cory was 4-11... 36% shooting. Did he force his game then? Down the stretch, DeMar was forcing his game by taking contested shots and looking for calls. Can't see those kinds of things in the box score.

And it's pretty debatable to say that DeMar is a better offensive weapon than JV.

[KHD]

I see a lot of Marc Gasol comparisons in these threads. I think we need to remind ourselves that Gasol represents a best-case scenario for Jonas.

Either way, can we afford to wait another 3-4 years before Jonas clicks on defense?

I didn't make the initial comparison to Gasol.

Just pointing out that Valanciunas is still younger than he was when he came into the league and it's still pretty early to be writing him off.

[Nilanka]

And it's pretty debatable to say that DeMar is a better offensive weapon than JV.

Objectively, DeMar is the better weapon, mainly because of his higher usage.

[Mess]

I see a lot of Marc Gasol comparisons in these threads. I think we need to remind ourselves that Gasol represents a best-case scenario for Jonas.

Either way, can we afford to wait another 3-4 years before Jonas clicks on defense?

Sure, why not? He's on a pretty affordable contract.


The Raptors started their All Star break at halftime. Break down the second half all you want but sometimes it is that simple. Still, it's disappointing and I hope it dampens their beach time.

[JWash]

I see a lot of Marc Gasol comparisons in these threads. I think we need to remind ourselves that Gasol represents a best-case scenario for Jonas.

Either way, can we afford to wait another 3-4 years before Jonas clicks on defense?

I don't think Jonas is a bad defender right now, he's just average. Similar to DeRozan. It's a bit more of a concern at the center spot because that's meant to be your anchor, but it does seem like he will figure it out eventually. It's about maturation and development, the tools are definitely there.

And I actually don't see Marc Gasol as Jonas' ceiling. Imo that level of impact is the expectation, but I could see him turning out better considering that he's a much better rebounder and more efficient scorer.

[Nilanka]

I didn't make the initial comparison to Gasol.

Just pointing out that Valanciunas is still younger than he was when he came into the league and it's still pretty early to be writing him off.

I'm not writing him off, per se. I'm just acknowledging that our "win now" window seems to have shortened over the last 3 months thank to our winning streak, combined with no real threat in the conference (outside of Cleveland). We may not get a better chance to reach the conference finals than this year.

Might it be time to think about sacrificing some future, to maximize the present?

[OldSkoolCool]

Lol JV vs KAT vs KP discussion

Yes KAT and KP may hit jumpers over JV

But, if we use JV properly, I doubt they could stop him either

It mostly comes down to properly utilizing your players...and in this singular game, JV was not properly used

#FireCasey and dont resign DD

[JWash]

Ideally you'd want the attack to be more balanced between Lowry-DD-JV. All of them with sort of 1A, 1B, 1C scoring roles Billups-Rip-Sheed with the old Pistons teams.

You don't need to play inside-outside to do that, and that isn't even logical. Just dumping the ball to JV all game and having the rest of the guys float around the perimeter doesn't make sense when you have two backcourt weapons that are that dangerous. It just requires a smart shift in gameplan.

Would be similar to what the Warriors have done with Green over the past few years. Instead of Curry-Klay just being the only ones really used as offensive weapons, now Green has become the #3 or even #2 guy on that team on offense. That doesn't mean that Curry/Klay don't still get their shots, you're just utilizing that third weapon more.

[JimiCliff]

Neither JV nor Ross can be traded this year, correct?

[breakin_ankles]

Neither JV nor Ross can be traded this year, correct?

Technically , they can, but we won't get their true value back (skill or contract wise) because of the poison pill

[JWash]

Neither JV nor Ross can be traded this year, correct?

No they can, they just have poison pill ramifications.

So even though JV is making like 5M this year (he signed a 4yr/64M extension), if we trade him, the outgoing cap hit for us is $5M, but the incoming cap hit for the receiving team is the average of this year and the years of his extension (so (5+64)/5, roughly 14M). In Ross' case he's making $3M but signed a 3yr/33M extension, so if we trade him the outgoing cap hit for us is $3M, but the incoming cap hit for the receiving team is (3+33)/4 so about $9M.

The imbalance of cap hits for the two teams makes them difficult to trade but not impossible. It'd still be easy to trade them to a team with a lot of cap space (Portland, Philly for example) but if dealing with another team that has limited or no cap room (most teams) it becomes difficult to construct a deal.

[KHD]

I'm not writing him off, per se. I'm just acknowledging that our "win now" window seems to have shortened over the last 3 months thank to our winning streak, combined with no real threat in the conference (outside of Cleveland). We may not get a better chance to reach the conference finals than this year.

Might it be time to think about sacrificing some future, to maximize the present?

no.

not with a core of Derozan and Lowry + some ~30 year old star that you might be able to get with a JV trade + many picks.

Let it play out, keep improving and building the youth talent.

The goal is to be good for the next decade and beyond, not the next 2 years.

[CNinja26]

There's no definitive evidence that an inside-outside game is more efficient offensively. You play the best style for our personnel. Right now our most dangerous offensive players play in the backcourt. I absolutely think JV needs to be utilized more, but shifting the offense to inside-outside is not logical because 2 of our 3 best players play on the perimeter.

There is more than one correct or efficient way to play the game of basketball. Inside-outside does not make sense with the personnel we have.

I'm inclined to agree with you. We do not really have good passing bigs. Heck, we barely have good passing guards. Lowry is our assist-leader, but he's far from a great passer. Why implement a style of play that our talent isn't particularly proficient at?

Passing is definitely an indicator of a good offensive scheme, but so is being aggressive and getting to the free throw line. We're amongst the best at that. Our all-stars are amongst the best at carving up defenses - what's wrong with taking advantage of our strength? I think we are doing enough offensively to compete in basketball games, despite not being a great assist team. We score points. Other teams know who the best people are on our team (it's no longer a secret), they go after Demar and Kyle (like they did in the playoffs), and we STILL score on them. We're good.

It's never a bad thing to try to be a better passing team, but I think our primary concerns are on the defensive end. We're top 10 - let's try to get that to top 5.

[breakin_ankles]

no.

not with a core of Derozan and Lowry + some ~30 year old star that you might be able to get with a JV trade + many picks.

Let it play out, keep improving and building the youth talent.

The goal is to be good for the next decade and beyond, not the next 2 years.

Exactly , we want to be the Spurs , not the Cavs

[Nilanka]

The goal is to be good for the next decade and beyond, not the next 2 years.

Debatable. The goal is to win a championship.

Exactly , we want to be the Spurs , not the Cavs

I would take being the 2008 Celtics, over the 2008-2015 Hawks.