Game 58 - Toronto Raptors 101 - Detroit Pistons 114

[Barolt]

We're going in a circle now.

AGAIN, I'm NOT just going by his 75 mins this year !!!!!!!!!!!! JEEZZZZZZ


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That's the thing though. NBA is different than college, is different than D-League. The game is played differently.

There's a lot of examples of guys who were mediocre/average college players becoming great pros, or guys who were amazing college players becoming terrible pros.

[Bandit]

No it hasn't. He was considered a great man defender in college.

And honestly, he was maybe our best defensive player last night. He did a good job staying in front of his man and showed good anticipation on and off the ball. He got lost on screens? Our whole team did and he was the only rookie playing a major role last night. You pay attention to how bad all our guards have gotten killed on screens over the last few years? We play screens badly quite often.

Honestly the only negative thing i can say about Delon's defense was that at a couple times Steve Blake just punked him on rookie mistakes. I don't mind too much because Delon is still very much a rookie. I think you give him another few 20 minute games and you have a very reliable defender at the 1/2 spots. Him and CoJo could be a tight defensive pair with good playmaking ability as soon as next year

[Axel]

Just comes down to what you valued gv as. I always liked him, and he was by far the clutchest player we've had the last few years. I don't see Delon being like that. And that's just my opinion.

So to recap:
GV's entire value on the court is on offence
Delon is a defensive PG who is a pass-first guy on offence
GV is clutch offensively (in your opinion) and despite offence being the lesser part of Delon's game, he is a poor mans GV?

[yabadabayolo]

So to recap:
GV's entire value on the court is on offence
Delon is a defensive PG who is a pass-first guy on offence
GV is clutch offensively (in your opinion) and despite offence being the lesser part of Delon's game, he is a poor mans GV?

Gv was a pass first guy, Delon is a pass first guy

Gv could shoot, Delon can not shoot.

Gv gets lost on defence, Delon gets lost on defence

Gv is a tall pg who uses his height to see over the defender, Delon is a tall pg who uses his height to pass over the defender

But yep, just look the other way. And keep attacking me as a poster mr. Mod. Thanks


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[GLF]

See, as much as I'm always looking over these depressing stats, I am at pretty much peak optimism (with one caveat, which I imagine is your reason for pessimism).

The team has the ability to be SO GOOD. And it will take only one small change to make it happen. Two players swap their roles, problem solved.

Seriously, outside of the Scola starting problem (which is easy to fix), everything else is going great. Patterson has really found his game this year, Ross has been very good of late, Lowry is pretty much a superstar, DeMar is having his best season ever by a wide margin, JV is very good and looks much more at home defensively in this system, Joseph has been way better than even his biggest supporters predicted, Biyombo has grown into his role off the bench and complements JV really well, and the team has a shot at 40 before 20 even without DeMarre Carroll, who should be back (and maybe even fully healthy) by the playoffs.

Everything is good, and it will all fall into place with one little adjustment.

Of course, that adjustment has to come from a coach who doesn't believe in adjustments. That of course is the caveat.

Dude I couldn't agree more. Everything that could go well in terms of each player individually has gone well. Patterson, Ross Demar, Kyle, Biz, JV, Cory. They are all playing better than they did last year and/or better than any of us expected. We are second in the East with a great record. We are top 5 offensive team. We WERE a top 10 defensive team. But still not far out right now. I cannot believe ONE player and a coach is going to ruin all of it. All of it. It's crazy to me. So if our coach does not make the adjustment to swap those roles (which he won't) how do you feel about our chances in the playoffs? What will keep you staying optimistic? Because I really admire how positive you are when you know how much Scola is killing us and in the back of your mind you know Casey isn't going to change anything. I just can't do it.

[DanH]

Just comes down to what you valued gv as. I always liked him, and he was by far the clutchest player we've had the last few years. I don't see Delon being like that. And that's just my opinion.


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Last year, in clutch minutes (<5 minutes left, <5 point differential), among teammates with at least 10 games of opportunity in clutch time, Vasquez had the 2nd worst on-court ORTG on the team, the 3rd worst on-court DRTG on the team, the 2nd worst on-court net rating on the team, the worst eFG% and TS% (with a scalding hot 19%), and had an assist rate lower than DeRozan, Williams and Patterson...

But he never turned it over, so that's good!

[Barolt]

Gv was a pass first guy, Delon is a pass first guy

Gv could shoot, Delon can not shoot.

Gv gets lost on defence, Delon gets lost on defence

Gv is a tall pg who uses his height to see over the defender, Delon is a tall pg who uses his height to pass over the defender

But yep, just look the other way. And keep attacking me as a poster mr. Mod. Thanks


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Delon is shooting 57% from 3 so far in the NBA, and 35.7% from 3 in the D-League. He's not actually a bad shooter.

As far as defense goes, we had a game in which everyone was playing bad defensively, so it's hard to judge anyone. It's REALLY hard to look good on defense when your teammates are shitting the bed on that end.

[Axel]

Gv was a pass first guy, Delon is a pass first guy

Gv could shoot, Delon can not shoot.

Gv gets lost on defence, Delon gets lost on defence

Gv is a tall pg who uses his height to see over the defender, Delon is a tall pg who uses his height to pass over the defender

But yep, just look the other way. And keep attacking me as a poster mr. Mod. Thanks

Delon Wright was one of the best defensive PG in the NCAA.

GV was one of the worst in the NBA.

That alone makes it a terrible comparison. Being a tall PG doesn't mean they are all comparable.

You dismiss my opinion because you think I'm just hating on GV. I make a Mitch Hedberg joke, you get your panties in a twist. Whatever man.

[Axel]

Last year, in clutch minutes (<5 minutes left, <5 point differential), among teammates with at least 10 games of opportunity in clutch time, Vasquez had the 2nd worst on-court ORTG on the team, the 3rd worst on-court DRTG on the team, the 2nd worst on-court net rating on the team, the worst eFG% and TS% (with a scalding hot 19%), and had an assist rate lower than DeRozan, Williams and Patterson...

But he never turned it over, so that's good!

I don't think these stats will make a difference.

[white men can't jump]

Gv was a pass first guy, Delon is a pass first guy

Gv could shoot, Delon can not shoot.

Gv gets lost on defence, Delon gets lost on defence

Gv is a tall pg who uses his height to see over the defender, Delon is a tall pg who uses his height to pass over the defender

But yep, just look the other way. And keep attacking me as a poster mr. Mod. Thanks


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Or you could actually supply some evidence...

Like those "Draft reports" calling him a bad on-ball defender, or bad PG defender or whatever. I looked around and it was pretty unanimous that he might be the best defensive guard prospect in the draft (or at least first round). Found one saying him being skinny was an issue fighting through screens, but also raved about everything else he does defensively. So yeah, not sure where you developed this idea that he's bad on the ball. There's one line referring to that in his nbadraft.net report, which looks like it was written with less care than a grade 6 book report.

He's clearly a much better defensive player than GV. That much is fairly fucking obvious to pretty much everyone. You're the only person making such a comparison.

[3inthekeon]

No it hasn't. He was considered a great man defender in college.

And honestly, he was maybe our best defensive player last night. He did a good job staying in front of his man and showed good anticipation on and off the ball. He got lost on screens? Our whole team did and he was the only rookie playing a major role last night. You pay attention to how bad all our guards have gotten killed on screens over the last few years? We play screens badly quite often.

Well said, but I'll go further. It's not just our guards. There are very few PG's that are good defenders in the NBA as a whole. And lots of shitty defenders.

[A.I]

Gv was a pass first guy, Delon is a pass first guy

Gv could shoot, Delon can not shoot.

Gv gets lost on defence, Delon gets lost on defence

Gv is a tall pg who uses his height to see over the defender, Delon is a tall pg who uses his height to pass over the defender

But yep, just look the other way. And keep attacking me as a poster mr. Mod. Thanks


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You're comparing a rookie to a player whose been in the league for a while now...Wright will make mistakes, he isn't going to be a superstar in his rookie season.

Plus every single draft report said Wright is a good defender. As for everything else, sure, they are both tall PGs.

Dirk and Bargnani were similar, both 7'0 PFs, both can shoot, both are quick for 7 footers, both are not good defensively, and so on. We all know how that comparison turned out.

[Barolt]

Last night though, for me, really did bring home how important it is not to sell our future for the short term. Wright, Powell, Bebe, Ross, JV, these are guys who look like they will be good. Right now, there's a historically dominant team in the league.

Why would we sell low on those guys right now, when we have a team that is not only very good now, but has a very, very bright future as well.

[LJ2]

Anyone try doing a comparison between this current Raptors team and the 2012-2013 Denver Nuggets team which won 56 or 57 games? Just curious if there are any similarities. I remember a lot of people thinking that team was good, but just didn't have the starts to go far in the playoffs, or to be serious contenders. Could say the same about this team.

[Barolt]

Anyone try doing a comparison between this current Raptors team and the 2012-2013 Denver Nuggets team which won 56 or 57 games? Just curious if there are any similarities. I remember a lot of people thinking that team was good, but just didn't have the starts to go far in the playoffs, or to be serious contenders. Could say the same about this team.

A few notable differences to me:

Positives for us:
-That nuggets team played at a very, very high pace. 2nd in the league. We're a slow team. The game slows down for almost everyone in the playoffs.(The Warriors being the obvious exception in recent history)
-Our stars are better than theirs were. Lowry, JV and DeRozan is a better top 3 than anything they had that year.
-The Nuggets turned the ball over a LOT. 27th in the league in turnovers.

Negatives for us:
-That nuggets team had a good starting lineup. Only one lineup topped 150 minutes for them that season, and Faried/Gallo/Igoudala/Koufos/Lawson was really good, +7.0 pts/100 possessions.