Game 58 - Toronto Raptors 101 - Detroit Pistons 114

[Nilanka]

So have to ask you... who else does Casey play at the 4?

He had four possiblities to go with at the 4. Paterson, the current whipping boy Luis Scola, Bennett and possibly Carroll when the roster got set at the beginning of the year.

Carroll is hurt but he is also only about ~210 LBS and while you can talk about it on message boards, on the floor he just can't match up against the 240LB'ers who man the position. Maybe 5-8 mins a nite in specific situations but over the course of a full season he would get killed physically.

Bennett if he was even remotely capable would have played some by now. It appears he is not capable and isn't going to play.

No trade at the deadline.

So that leaves Ppat and Luis... thats how dafuq happens.
So its hard to see why you think its reasonable to pin yet another one on your personal piñata Dwane Casey.

Not really following the logic here. Are you saying that since Masai didn't do a better job at filling our PF spots, that Casey deserves no blame for using his roster poorly?

[Demographic Shift]

JJ can play some small-ball 4 as well, I think.

Possibly but is he that much of an upgrade over Scola ? To me .. no..

You can only play the guys who are at your disposal and have your confidence they will help.

[Demographic Shift]

Not really following the logic here. Are you saying that since Masai didn't do a better job at filling our PF spots, that Casey deserves no blame for using his roster poorly?

You can only play the guys who are at the coaches disposal and have his confidence they will help.

Who would you play at the 4 if you were coach for a day and made your choice to bench Luis ?

[Just Is]

So have to ask you... who else does Casey play at the 4?

He had four possiblities to go with at the 4. Paterson, the current whipping boy Luis Scola, Bennett and possibly Carroll when the roster got set at the beginning of the year.

Carroll is hurt but he is also only about ~210 LBS and while you can talk about it on message boards, on the floor he just can't match up against the 240LB'ers who man the position. Maybe 5-8 mins a nite in specific situations but over the course of a full season he would get killed physically.

Bennett if he was even remotely capable would have played some by now. It appears he is not capable and isn't going to play.

No trade at the deadline.

So that leaves Ppat and Luis... thats how dafuq happens.
So its hard to see why you think its reasonable to pin yet another one on your personal piñata Dwane Casey.

So if that leaves PP and Scola...shouldn't the choice of PP have been easier?

[A.I]

So have to ask you... who else does Casey play at the 4?

He had four possiblities to go with at the 4. Paterson, the current whipping boy Luis Scola, Bennett and possibly Carroll when the roster got set at the beginning of the year.

Carroll is hurt but he is also only about ~210 LBS and while you can talk about it on message boards, on the floor he just can't match up against the 240LB'ers who man the position. Maybe 5-8 mins a nite in specific situations but over the course of a full season he would get killed physically.

Bennett if he was even remotely capable would have played some by now. It appears he is not capable and isn't going to play.

No trade at the deadline.

So that leaves Ppat and Luis... thats how dafuq happens.
So its hard to see why you think its reasonable to pin yet another one on your personal piñata Dwane Casey.

It isn't that easy to find trades. Masai dangled Patterson and the NYK/DEN pick and nobody bit.

The problem is Scola is struggling big time and Casey insists that he isn't struggling and continues to start him while Patterson has been playing well off of the bench. There is your starter, a perfectly good and capable floor spacer and active defender.

[tDotted]

Possibly but is he that much of an upgrade over Scola ? To me .. no..

You can only play the guys who are at your disposal and have your confidence they will help.

It's not even about helping at this point. JJ won't be a complete negative on the court thus he's a better option at the 4.

[Nilanka]

You can only play the guys who are at the coaches disposal and have his confidence they will help.

Who would you play at the 4 if you were coach for a day and made your choice to bench Luis ?

As been pointed out by others, I'd start Patterson (because he's playing well), and bring in Scola off the bench.

As shitty as Scola's been lately, we still need him in the rotation. Getting him going against inferior competition (i.e. second units), seems like a good way to get him out of his "slump", doesn't it?

[Demographic Shift]

I don't understand. How does this make not starting Patterson OK?

Plan A was to start Patterson and have Scola off the bench. But those are the only two real PF options, so plan A could not have happened? That makes no sense.

Patterson should be the starter, Luis the bench player. How does anything MU did preclude that from happening?

Not saying Scola should or should not start.... just providing the other side of the coin view to Mr.School on how dafuq came to be. Scola's mins are decreasing over the last 10-15 games and he is now logging about 17 mins a night. He pretty much doesn't play any crunch time minutes.

PPat plays the lions share if not all the minutes when the game is being decided.

[Primer]

Not saying Scola should or should not start.... just providing the other side of the coin view to Mr.School on how dafuq came to be. Scola's mins are decreasing over the last 10-15 games and he is now logging about 17 mins a night. He pretty much doesn't play any crunch time minutes.

PPat plays the lions share if not all the minutes when the game is being decided.

If PPat started then we wouldn't start every game like shit and losing. Keep the minutes the same, but start PPat, better starts to games, easier wins, with the added benefit Scola gets to use his vet's vet's skills on unskilled bench players instead of getting abused by skilled starters.

[Demographic Shift]

As been pointed out by others, I'd start Patterson (because he's playing well), and bring in Scola off the bench.

As shitty as Scola's been lately, we still need him in the rotation. Getting him going against inferior competition (i.e. second units), seems like a good way to get him out of his "slump", doesn't it?

Its possible with 23 games to go that may occur. The bench unit of BB / PP / TR and CJ have performed extremely well this year as a unit and one can see why its tough to break them up. They excel when they come in. They not only retain leads but expand on them regularly. The formula imperfect as it is must be working as they are winning games at a faster clip than losing them.

It is apparent that the 2nd unit has two floor spacers in TR and PP to go with Biz where the first 5 up have only Lowry. Perhaps when Carroll gets back and if DD keeps up his newfound corner 3 then the first 5 will have the floor spacers it needs. That and Carroll will be able to help and cover for Luis against the quicker 4's that are really pushing Luis to his limits defensively.

In the Playoffs I think we see the rotation shrink to 8.

[DanH]

Not saying Scola should or should not start.... just providing the other side of the coin view to Mr.School on how dafuq came to be. Scola's mins are decreasing over the last 10-15 games and he is now logging about 17 mins a night. He pretty much doesn't play any crunch time minutes.

PPat plays the lions share if not all the minutes when the game is being decided.

The game gets decided over the entire game.

Scola is still playing like 40% of the game (18 MPG over the past month). That's a lot of game to write off as not important.

[Demographic Shift]

If PPat started then we wouldn't start every game like shit and losing. Keep the minutes the same, but start PPat, better starts to games, easier wins, with the added benefit Scola gets to use his vet's vet's skills on unskilled bench players instead of getting abused by skilled starters.

Its hard to say we would start games any differently than we do today with Ppat starting vs Luis. Yes.. the counter is to say "at least try it ". We may see this when Carroll gets back as DC can help on switches with Luis with some stretch or quicker 4's when he supplants JJ at the 3.

Perhaps the prevailing thoughts from Greer may be that its easier to hide some of Luis's defensive struggles/shortcomings with the starting unit. Nurse's offense asks him to step out and make 3's and he is doing that. Not at a prolific rate for the position and the league in general but at a career best for Luis. So its not a fair assessment to say that he is a negative. He is doing what he can with his skill set. He is trying. Hard to slag a guy with heart that is doing what is being asked of him.

[S.R.]

Yeah, we will go as far as Lowry can take us, and that's what I'm afraid of. Hands down he is our best player by a large margin, but how does he stack up against the best of the best in the playoffs? Playoffs is when the stars shine brightest, so how does he stack up against the elite of the East?

My only Lowry concern is that he stays 100% healthy through the playoffs. How does Lowry look against the league's elite? Well he was pretty damn dominant against Cleveland. Irving sucks on D but they also threw Delly and Shump at him, and those are two solid perimeter defenders. Cleveland as a whole is a top 10 defensive team and Lowry absolutely dissected them.

Lowry's been super consistent. He's had good to great games against virtually every top team (two best games of the year vs. Cavs and GSW) and against good perimeter defenders (Clippers and Celtics). Every now and then he'll have an off shooting night, but I can't think of any player or team that's been able to shut him down consistently.

If there's a place to worry, it's about the other guys who haven't proven themselves yet. Will Patterson and Ross show up in the playoffs? On the match up front, defensive guards with length can really give DeMar a lot of trouble.

[Demographic Shift]

The game gets decided over the entire game.

Scola is still playing like 40% of the game (18 MPG over the past month). That's a lot of game to write off as not important.

Agree.. the game is 48 minutes long and every minute counts..
Yet there appears to be no other choice when you look down the bench but to play Luis for those 18 minutes.. be they in the 1st.. 2nd ..3rd or 4th quarters.... till Carroll gets back and can maybe take that down to 12 minutes a night. Luis is giving it all he can. There just isn't anyone else right now.

[rightsideup]

just a poor defensive effort tonight slow on rotations and help. Van Gundy is slowly building his roster with some solid pieces that fit his system well.