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Game 58 - Toronto Raptors 101 - Detroit Pistons 114

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  • Axel wrote: View Post
    Or more accurately, every year Casey does something that defies logic and the fan base is smart enough to recognize it.
    I refuse to believe that the fan base is smarter than the collective Raptors staff. People can throw around stats, but that doesn't make anyone experts like the... actual experts.

    I'm fairly certain the Raptors staff have a very comprehensive understanding of all the numbers thrown around and make their decisions in spite of them. Why? Not everything comes down to numbers. Managing a team of players is far more complex and dynamic than what +/- or advanced stats say. They're in the business of W's and L's, yes (which looks damn good at the moment). They're also in the business of managing men with egos, psyches, personalities, families, ambitions, interpersonal relationships and a plethora of things that aren't measured in the NBA.com stats tab.

    I'm not saying the numbers can't tell a story, nor that people here can't criticize or give their two cents on what the Raptors staff should do, or how this team can be better on paper. I mostly get annoyed when I hear regular joes who watch a game and read a few articles and manipulate a few stat lines show complete disregard for and insult a man who has spent his entire life doing one thing: basketball. Believe me, Casey knows more than we do, whether we like to admit it or not.

    So I'm actually going to side with Democratic Shift on this subject matter.

    Comment


    • Geez, looking at the numbers this Salmons parallel is pretty bang on.

      Salmons in the regular season:
      103.3 on-court ORTG (2nd worst on team of the regulars), 101.2 DRTG (4th best on team) - seems reasonable, bad offensively and good defensively.

      Salmons in the regular season after Jan 31st:
      101.5 on-court ORTG (worst on team), 106.0 DRTG (2nd worst on team) - yeah, that fell off fast.

      Salmons in the playoffs:
      91.1 on-court ORTG (worst on team by about 8 points), 119.8 DRTG (worst on team by about 4 points) - and there you have it.

      This is all with him playing against bench players.

      Scola is showing similar numbers since his collapse (Jan 1st) but against starters, and in a far more obvious bad fit situation.

      Scola since Jan 1st:
      102.8 ORTG (worst on team), 115.1 DRTG (worst on team) - pretty reminiscent of Salmons post-Jan-31st, and already approaching the levels of suck that Salmons achieved in the playoffs.
      twitter.com/dhackett1565

      Comment


      • CNinja26 wrote: View Post
        I refuse to believe that the fan base is smarter than the collective Raptors staff. People can throw around stats, but that doesn't make anyone experts like the... actual experts.

        I'm fairly certain the Raptors staff have a very comprehensive understanding of all the numbers thrown around and make their decisions in spite of them. Why? Not everything comes down to numbers. Managing a team of players is far more complex and dynamic than what +/- or advanced stats say. They're in the business of W's and L's, yes (which looks damn good at the moment). They're also in the business of managing men with egos, psyches, personalities, families, ambitions, interpersonal relationships and a plethora of things that aren't measured in the NBA.com stats tab.

        I'm not saying the numbers can't tell a story, nor that people here can't criticize or give their two cents on what the Raptors staff should do, or how this team can be better on paper. I mostly get annoyed when I hear regular joes who watch a game and read a few articles and manipulate a few stat lines show complete disregard for and insult a man who has spent his entire life doing one thing: basketball. Believe me, Casey knows more than we do, whether we like to admit it or not.

        So I'm actually going to side with Democratic Shift on this subject matter.
        Over the past 3 seasons, out of a total of 245 games, he has come off the bench 160 times. One hundred and sixty. You think asking him to do the same thing, for the next 24 games is asking too much? From a professional? From a grown ass man? That's more insulting to Scola than it is to suggest the coaching staff are making a very irrational decision keeping him out there in a role he can't produce in.

        Comment


        • DanH wrote: View Post
          Salmons in the regular season:
          103.3 on-court ORTG (2nd worst on team of the regulars), 101.2 DRTG (4th best on team) - seems reasonable, bad offensively and good defensively.
          "Wait, Salmons is actually playing? We did not plan for this."

          DanH wrote: View Post
          Salmons in the regular season after Jan 31st:
          101.5 on-court ORTG (worst on team), 106.0 DRTG (2nd worst on team) - yeah, that fell off fast.
          "Oh man I hope tonight isn't the night they stop playing him!"

          DanH wrote: View Post
          Salmons in the playoffs:
          91.1 on-court ORTG (worst on team by about 8 points), 119.8 DRTG (worst on team by about 4 points) - and there you have it.
          "THEY'RE STILL PLAYING HIM!!!! WHEEEEEEEEE HEHEHEHEHEHE!!!!!!!"
          "Stop eating your sushi."
          "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
          "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
          - Jack Armstrong

          Comment


          • Axel wrote: View Post
            And if you have thoughts to address the concerns raised, then please share. But I grow weary of your constant "you guys shouldn't be complaining" rhetoric.

            I believe, as was the case with Salmons, that we have a very small margin for error and should make every attempt to address issues that could cost us a game in the playoffs. Why wouldn't you want to address it? There is less risk with trying to fix something in the regular season than in the playoffs.
            Just as I can grow weary of the constant complaining and kvetching under the guise of "concerns." The street does run both ways. After a while the steady bleat of the coach sucks and the SG is a fraud because he doesn't shoot 3's well wears. No reason I can't disagree with it. Variety after all is the spice of life. So with the moniker of moderator you should encourage and tolerate all views.. not just the ones that you ascribe to.

            I agree that the margin of error in sports is very very small between winning and losing. PF was the acknowledged weak spot coming into the season and so it remains 60 games in. The GM through no ones fault has been unable to address it and so they soldier on using Scola as thats what is available to the team right now. As all four quarters and all 48 minutes count equally to an aggregate having Scola start the game or come in on 2nd unit embodies the phrase moving the deck chairs around on the Titanic. Its pro sports.. if there is a weak link... it will be identified and exploited whenever the opportunity presents itself.

            Comment


            • tDotted wrote: View Post
              Over the past 3 seasons, out of a total of 245 games, he has come off the bench 160 times. One hundred and sixty. You think asking him to do the same thing, for the next 24 games is asking too much? From a professional? From a grown ass man? That's more insulting to Scola than it is to suggest the coaching staff are making a very irrational decision keeping him out there in a role he can't produce in.
              Or maybe, jussst maybe, the current rotation is actually working. Scola starts red hot, he gets 20 to 25 minutes. If he starts 'scola', he sits. 2pat and the bench mob continue to wipe the floor with other teams, and pat not starting means he's fresh to play a ton of 2nd half minutes including crunch time.

              I've seen 1000 posts talking about scola hurting the starting unit, but at the same time how lowry and the bench mob is the best 5 man unit in the league. You can't have it both ways.

              I also see we are behind just golden state and San Antonio at 19-6 since January 1st, which is the date ppl say scola "fell off a cliff". Go figure. That idiot dwane casey seems to be winning despite himself again
              It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

              Comment


              • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                Or maybe, jussst maybe, the current rotation is actually working. Scola starts red hot, he gets 20 to 25 minutes. If he starts 'scola', he sits. 2pat and the bench mob continue to wipe the floor with other teams, and pat not starting means he's fresh to play a ton of 2nd half minutes including crunch time.

                I've seen 1000 posts talking about scola hurting the starting unit, but at the same time how lowry and the bench mob is the best 5 man unit in the league. You can't have it both ways.

                I also see we are behind just golden state and San Antonio at 19-6 since January 1st, which is the date ppl say scola "fell off a cliff". Go figure. That idiot dwane casey seems to be winning despite himself again
                Except... it's not working.

                Here's a fun link for you. Game flow by minutes, cumulative for the entire season, for the Raptors:

                http://public.tableau.com/shared/26S...play_count=yes

                Do you see what's happening in the first quarter?
                twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

                Comment


                • Barolt wrote: View Post
                  Except... it's not working.

                  Here's a fun link for you. Game flow by minutes, cumulative for the entire season, for the Raptors:

                  http://public.tableau.com/shared/26S...play_count=yes

                  Do you see what's happening in the first quarter?
                  Plus the third Q - an immediate drop off from halftime and they don't break even with that halftime score until the 10 minute mark of the 3rd.
                  twitter.com/dhackett1565

                  Comment


                  • DanH wrote: View Post
                    Plus the third Q - an immediate drop off from halftime and they don't break even with that halftime score until the 10 minute mark of the 3rd.
                    it's a bit alarming just how closely that curve is following Casey's substitution patterns of Luis Scola. I struggle to think of another player, who is not a rookie, dragging down a lineup so hard and yet still having ZERO chance of being benched.

                    Comment


                    • KHD wrote: View Post
                      it's a bit alarming just how closely that curve is following Casey's substitution patterns of Luis Scola. I struggle to think of another player, who is not a rookie, dragging down a lineup so hard and yet still having ZERO chance of being benched.
                      The only logical conclusion is that we're developing Scola. Gotta let him play through his mistakes because this guy is gonna be a star.

                      Comment


                      • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                        Or maybe, jussst maybe, the current rotation is actually working. Scola starts red hot, he gets 20 to 25 minutes. If he starts 'scola', he sits. 2pat and the bench mob continue to wipe the floor with other teams, and pat not starting means he's fresh to play a ton of 2nd half minutes including crunch time.

                        I've seen 1000 posts talking about scola hurting the starting unit, but at the same time how lowry and the bench mob is the best 5 man unit in the league. You can't have it both ways.

                        I also see we are behind just golden state and San Antonio at 19-6 since January 1st, which is the date ppl say scola "fell off a cliff". Go figure. That idiot dwane casey seems to be winning despite himself again
                        Dude, the point in the NBA is not to win games - it's to even out the cumulative score line graph. Everyone knows that.

                        Comment


                        • slaw wrote: View Post
                          Dude, the point in the NBA is not to win games - it's to even out the cumulative score line graph. Everyone knows that.
                          Ah. So statistics don't matter. Trends don't matter. It's all about the record. That worked out great for us last year, right?
                          twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

                          Comment


                          • Barolt wrote: View Post
                            Ah. So statistics don't matter. Trends don't matter. It's all about the record. That worked out great for us last year, right?
                            No, but it's not all about the statistics either. Players aren't widgets. When you are managing an organization not everything is about how the numbers appear, there is more to it than that. And, every change you make has unintended consequences. All I suggest is that people keep that in mind when they want to upend things on a very successful team.

                            Comment


                            • Barolt wrote: View Post
                              Except... it's not working.

                              Here's a fun link for you. Game flow by minutes, cumulative for the entire season, for the Raptors:

                              http://public.tableau.com/shared/26S...play_count=yes

                              Do you see what's happening in the first quarter?
                              Thats interesting.. can you manipulate the output to show specific date parameters ?

                              If yes and just for fun can you see what the output looks like during the 17 game stretch from Nov 21 to Jan 10th ?

                              Comment


                              • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                                Or maybe, jussst maybe, the current rotation is actually working. Scola starts red hot, he gets 20 to 25 minutes. If he starts 'scola', he sits. 2pat and the bench mob continue to wipe the floor with other teams, and pat not starting means he's fresh to play a ton of 2nd half minutes including crunch time.

                                I've seen 1000 posts talking about scola hurting the starting unit, but at the same time how lowry and the bench mob is the best 5 man unit in the league. You can't have it both ways.

                                I also see we are behind just golden state and San Antonio at 19-6 since January 1st, which is the date ppl say scola "fell off a cliff". Go figure. That idiot dwane casey seems to be winning despite himself again
                                Of course you can have it both ways. Lowry is a starter, and he plays with the Lowry+bench unit. So obviously you can make it so a starter plays with that unit.

                                I wrote an entire two articles on this and found a very easy rotation structure with Lowry+bench unit getting 9 minutes a game together (compared to 6 now), Lowry played fewer minutes than he does now, and Patterson starting.
                                twitter.com/dhackett1565

                                Comment

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