DeRozan and Lowry will end up being the best raptors of all time

[Abbas]

Wait... you think Derozan is better than lowry?? And Vince??

OK I'm moving on...

season wise lowry is beter but history wise my vote goes to DD

and no vince is obv better but i do think both DD and lowry will over take him in the years to come. (IF they stay with us)

[Abbas]

If we go to ECF and sign Durant we will be legit title contenders. Not likely but love your optimism. Our best chance of signing Durant is if OKC gets bounced n the first round. That and we go go ECF and lose to CAVS in 6 or 7.

don't forget the top 5 pick lol

[Machine]

season wise lowry is beter but history wise my vote goes to DD

and no vince is obv better but i do think both DD and lowry will over take him in the years to come. (IF they stay with us)

So you're voting on who's been here the longest and not who's a better basketball player. You should've said so.

[Abbas]

I don't know. I have a hard time keeping Bosh so high.

Are we talking talent here? Or what the players meant for the team while being here?

Bosh was a supremely talented player for us who put up big numbers. And it's not like he was a bad guy. Not exactly a leader though, and it was probably the most disappointing, treadmill-like era in franchise history. And he left without a second thought to ride LeBron to some rings. I mean, I don't really have anything against him, but I'm not sure I'd put him ahead of Lowry and DD now (and these 2 guys get a huge boost if we have a deep playoff run this year).

Agreed...

[Barolt]

No, Stoudemire was never that good. Fans still overrate him. Lowry is much much better than Damon ever was.

I think Lowry's more like the reverse Deron Williams. Williams peaked in his mid 20s, Lowry closer to 30. But their peaks are somewhat similar.

[Barolt]

I don't know. I have a hard time keeping Bosh so high.

Are we talking talent here? Or what the players meant for the team while being here?

Bosh was a supremely talented player for us who put up big numbers. And it's not like he was a bad guy. Not exactly a leader though, and it was probably the most disappointing, treadmill-like era in franchise history. And he left without a second thought to ride LeBron to some rings. I mean, I don't really have anything against him, but I'm not sure I'd put him ahead of Lowry and DD now (and these 2 guys get a huge boost if we have a deep playoff run this year).

Bosh never had this kind of talent around him, being fair.

[Abbas]

So you're voting on who's been here the longest and not who's a better basketball player. You should've said so.

if it was season wise VC is better than both dd and kl by far

lets just say its 50/50 on history and best season

[Scraptor]

Wait... you think Derozan is better than lowry?? And Vince??

OK I'm moving on...

Dude that's not what he said at all. The thread isn't about peaks it's about who will end up being the best Raptor, which includes longevity, which is why he mentioned the years.

Honestly if DeMar retires a Raptor or at least sticks around until his ring-chasing 30s he will definitely overtake Vince. And if he matches Lowry in All-Star appearances he'll probably have the edge on Lowry.

That said, don't rule out Jonas! Who knows how he'd play under a different coach or with the roster retooled.

[Abbas]

Bosh never had this kind of talent around him, being fair.

honestly bosh would be AMAZING if he was on our 2016 roster instead of scola or 2Pat

[Barolt]

honestly bosh would be AMAZING if he was on our 2016 roster instead of scola or 2Pat

I think this is the most talented, top to bottom, Raptor team ever. Easily.

[white men can't jump]

Bosh never had this kind of talent around him, being fair.

Yeah, but Bosh really has never elevated talent around him. Not saying management wasn't culpable, but nothing about his tenure here is memorable, and he got to put up bigger numbers partly because of that lack of talent. He's a great player, but great Raptor? Meh. He's in the top 5 only because we haven't had enough good players yet.

[Abbas]

Dude that's not what he said at all. The thread isn't about peaks it's about who will end up being the best Raptor, which includes longevity, which is why he mentioned the years.

Honestly if DeMar retires a Raptor or at least sticks around until his ring-chasing 30s he will definitely overtake Vince. And if he matches Lowry in All-Star appearances he'll probably have the edge on Lowry.

That said, don't rule out Jonas! Who knows how he'd play under a different coach or with the roster retooled.

Its too early too tell but if Jonas sticks around, I have no doubt in my mind he'll be top 5 half way into his new contract

[Barolt]

Yeah, but Bosh really has never elevated talent around him. Not saying management wasn't culpable, but nothing about his tenure here is memorable, and he got to put up bigger numbers partly because of that lack of talent. He's a great player, but great Raptor? Meh. He's in the top 5 only because we haven't had enough good players yet.

I completely disagree. Bosh's Miami tenure has proven nothing but the opposite. He's been the guy who changes his game constantly to make his team better.

Maybe what was being asked of him in Toronto was the wrong things, instead?

[white men can't jump]

I completely disagree. Bosh's Miami tenure has proven nothing but the opposite. He's been the guy who changes his game constantly to make his team better.

Maybe what was being asked of him in Toronto was the wrong things, instead?

He's not really elevating guys, he's playing a role more suited to him being efficient which is better for his team, at his best by being the 2nd/3rd option...Which is the kind of role DeMar plays for us, and we're a better team than, say Miami this year and last with LeBron gone (and yes, Bosh is having health issues, but we were better before he went out this season too). Back to having to carry a bigger load, his team has done worse than ours...his being led by Wade and him, ours by Lowry and DeMar.

Would the team be better now with Bosh instead of DeMar? Maybe. Some might say probably. But that's not the discussion being had. Think of it this way, if both players would be the 2nd best player on this team, but DeMar is the one actually on this team helping it have this success, why shouldn't he be ahead in the conversation? Plus, what about potential DeMar stays here even longer for even more playoff runs? How does that stack up to what Bosh actually accomplished here, which was actually very little?

So yeah, I'm not convinced there's any reason to keep Bosh so high on any list of all-time great Raptors. He should hopefully get pushed down as the team has more success and more good players come through. He's a great player, and will likely end up in the HOF, but that will be because of what he has done with the Heat in a less prominent role than the one he had here. I hope we don't have to wait another 20 years for him to be knocked out of the top 5.

[JawsGT]

IF they make the ECF this season, then they both surpass Bosh and VC as far as I'm concerned.