DeRozan and Lowry will end up being the best raptors of all time

[JWash]

DeMar has never had to play second fiddle to Lowry. DeMar has averaged 28.6% usage over the last three years, while Lowry has averaged 24.5%. (Last four years it's 27.3 to 23.6 for DeMar.)

DeMar right now is simply not as great as Lowry, and I think that that is a basic assertion that can be supported by a ton of stats and the eye test.

That said, it is important to note a couple things. Lowry's first true All-Star caliber season was age 27. DeMar has yet to turn 27. So in my opinion you're going to see possibly four or five more years of prime DeMar, before he even begins to slow down.

So while I think Lowry will end up having the better peak for probably six or seven years, Demar will probably end up doing enough to get the edge when all is said and done, mainly due to longevity and being a homegrown dinosaur.

Good points here

[planetmars]

JV is still young, his time will come.

JV needs a new coach / system before we can even start adding him to the discussion of all time great Raptors.

[planetmars]

DeMar has never had to play second fiddle to Lowry. DeMar has averaged 28.6% usage over the last three years, while Lowry has averaged 24.5%. (Last four years it's 27.3 to 23.6 for DeMar.)

DeMar right now is simply not as great as Lowry, and I think that that is a basic assertion that can be supported by a ton of stats and the eye test.

That said, it is important to note a couple things. Lowry's first true All-Star caliber season was age 27. DeMar has yet to turn 27. So in my opinion you're going to see possibly four or five more years of prime DeMar, before he even begins to slow down.

So while I think Lowry will end up having the better peak for probably six or seven years, Demar will probably end up doing enough to get the edge when all is said and done, mainly due to longevity and being a homegrown dinosaur.

Good point about DD's peak being longer.. it will be interesting to see how it all unfolds. I do suspect though that we will one day have a new coach and I think that may actually hurt DD and not help him. A new coach could lower DD's usage which could reduce his chances to succeed Lowry as the alpha dog on the team.

[Scraptor]

DD unfortunately has to play second fiddle to Lowry which will make it extremely difficult for him to get him past Bosh. And JV has to play 3rd fiddle which makes it even harder for him.

DeMar has never had to play second fiddle to Lowry. DeMar has averaged 28.6% usage over the last three years, while Lowry has averaged 24.5%. (Last four years it's 27.3 to 23.6 for DeMar.)

DeMar right now is simply not as great as Lowry, and I think that that is a basic assertion that can be supported by a ton of stats and the eye test.

That said, it is important to note a couple things. Lowry's first true All-Star caliber season was age 27. DeMar has yet to turn 27. So in my opinion you're going to see possibly four or five more years of prime DeMar, before he even begins to slow down.

So while I think Lowry will end up having the better peak for probably six or seven years, Demar will probably end up doing enough to get the edge when all is said and done, mainly due to longevity and being a homegrown dinosaur.

[bertarapsfan]

as it stand i think the MOST TALENTED/BEST PLAYER in history would be
1.Vince
2.Mcgrady
3.Lowry
4.Bosh
5.Derozan
However the best RAPTOR ever is a diffrent story id have to rank the best raptor in history ( judging time with raptors,team success individual stats, and importance to franchise.
1.Vince
2.Derozan
3.Bosh
4.Lowry
5,Whoever

Demar gets a bump in greatest raptor simply because their is no Lowry without demar. we needed that type of guy who wasnt a star but had to work for it cause we were never gonna get that superstar talent. Demar developing within the orginization was so important. he helped us build. without him we dont get lowry. i believe this team we have no can be a stepping stone to get a legit superstar. the fact is we do not get to this point as a team without Demar (or another player growing to a star within the team). we could however have this good of a team with Demar + another pg. That why i would always rank Derozan ahead of Lowry as best raptor of all time

[A.I]

Lowry will overtake Vince if he can get us past the 7th game in the 2nd round, or if he can get us to at least 2 second round visits.

For me its playoff success.

DD unfortunately has to play second fiddle to Lowry which will make it extremely difficult for him to get him past Bosh. And JV has to play 3rd fiddle which makes it even harder for him.

JV is still young, his time will come.

[planetmars]

Lowry will overtake Vince if he can get us past the 7th game in the 2nd round, or if he can get us to at least 2 second round visits.

For me its playoff success.

DD unfortunately has to play second fiddle to Lowry which will make it extremely difficult for him to get him past Bosh. And JV has to play 3rd fiddle which makes it even harder for him.

[JWash]

You don't think Bosh could be the number two guy and win as much as the Raptors have been? DeRozan never won as the number one guy, never got anywhere near the playoffs either. Bosh dragged this garbage team into the playoffs twice. All the team's success with DeMar needs to be attributed first and foremost to Lowry.

Bosh was here for years, was a constant all star presence, and was the best player here. DeRozan has been here for years.

I didn't say that. The reality is that he hasn't done it and never will. So I mean we can play shoulda/coulda/woulda scenarios as much as we want, but for me deciding the best players in franchise history comes down to body of work for that franchise. If DeRozan helps Lowry lead us to some deep playoff runs as the #2 guy he's clear-cut ahead of Bosh for me.

[yabadabayolo]

DeRozan and Lowry will end up being the best raptors of all time

You don't think Bosh could be the number two guy and win as much as the Raptors have been? DeRozan never won as the number one guy, never got anywhere near the playoffs either. Bosh dragged this garbage team into the playoffs twice. All the team's success with DeMar needs to be attributed first and foremost to Lowry.

Bosh was here for years, was a constant all star presence, and was the best player here. DeRozan has been here for years.

At the end of the day. The goat player in a franchises history is the guy with the most records, and the playoff runs they were apart of.

After this year, demar has enough records, and more than enough playoff runs than any one else in history. Including bosh. 2 mediocre years of bosh, will never be as good as 3 consecutive division leading and "potential" deep playoff run. Making it to the east finals will easily put BOTH Lowry and derozan above bosh. Becuz at the end of the day, all bosh really did with us, was or up big numbers. While derozan played a KEY role in a conference run.


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[DanH]

Bosh never won anything so imo if DeMar has some deep playoff runs he would pass him (hell I'd argue even 1 is enough). Carter's superstar stats/helping put us on the map makes it tougher for DeMar to eclipse him though unless he were to win like a finals MVP/championship or something of that sort.

Don't get how Bosh would have any sort of stranglehold (you said "best case") though when he literally did nothing here except put up numbers. And I know and recognize that Bosh in Toronto was a better player than DeMar is now (although the gap isn't particularly massive), but when I'm talking about best players in franchise history or franchise greats, things like winning and longevity go a long way there.

You don't think Bosh could be the number two guy and win as much as the Raptors have been? DeRozan never won as the number one guy, never got anywhere near the playoffs either. Bosh dragged this garbage team into the playoffs twice. All the team's success with DeMar needs to be attributed first and foremost to Lowry.

Bosh was here for years, was a constant all star presence, and was the best player here. DeRozan has been here for years.

[KeonClark]

In the eyes of the general fanbase, IF this team does have success going forwards. DeRozan might actually be the one who ends up being viewed as the GOAT Raptor simply because he would have (in this scenario) been here from start to finish. Even moreso the case if he were to win a finals MVP at some point (not unheard of for the "best" player to not win finals MVP, see Dumars, Worthy, Parker, Iguodala, Pierce, etc).

Obviously if you want to crank out WS, impact stats, etc then he wouldn't have a case over Lowry, but generally that's not the way these type of things are looked at.

Who's the greatest Celtic from the big 3 redux era? Most would say Pierce, even though KG was the better player. Just an example.

I'm sure they'll both have banners. God willing, we get a team banner. The really fancy kind.

[JWash]

In the eyes of the general fanbase, IF this team does have success going forwards. DeRozan might actually be the one who ends up being viewed as the GOAT Raptor simply because he would have (in this scenario) been here from start to finish. Even moreso the case if he were to win a finals MVP at some point (not unheard of for the "best" player to not win finals MVP, see Dumars, Worthy, Parker, Iguodala, Pierce, etc).

Obviously if you want to crank out WS, impact stats, etc then he wouldn't have a case over Lowry, but generally that's not the way these type of things are looked at.

Who's the greatest Celtic from the big 3 redux era? Most would say Pierce, even though KG was the better player. Just an example.

[JWash]

If Lowry was having this type of season when he was 26 everyone would be saying he's a superstar. Late bloomer in Toronto doesn't get the hype, but this guy is a legit superstar. All around baller.

Billups effect.

[JWash]

Best case I can see is Lowry - Carter - Bosh - DD. But having the best and 4th best franchise players in team history at the same time is pretty great.

Bosh never won anything so imo if DeMar has some deep playoff runs he would pass him (hell I'd argue even 1 is enough). Carter's superstar stats/helping put us on the map makes it tougher for DeMar to eclipse him though unless he were to win like a finals MVP/championship or something of that sort.

Don't get how Bosh would have any sort of stranglehold (you said "best case") though when he literally did nothing here except put up numbers. And I know and recognize that Bosh in Toronto was a better player than DeMar is now (although the gap isn't particularly massive), but when I'm talking about best players in franchise history or franchise greats, things like winning and longevity go a long way there.

[enlightenment]

Lowry > Bosh.

Bosh never brought toughness, leadership, defence, or playmaking. He did a great job at the end of Calderon PnRs, had a great face-up midrange game in isolation, and was mobile in the fast break. Bosh is a great weapon, but as the focus of a team, he lacks the qualities that elevate the players around him.