DeRozan and Lowry will end up being the best raptors of all time

[yabadabayolo]

DeRozan and Lowry will end up being the best raptors of all time

You don't think Bosh could be the number two guy and win as much as the Raptors have been? DeRozan never won as the number one guy, never got anywhere near the playoffs either. Bosh dragged this garbage team into the playoffs twice. All the team's success with DeMar needs to be attributed first and foremost to Lowry.

Bosh was here for years, was a constant all star presence, and was the best player here. DeRozan has been here for years.

At the end of the day. The goat player in a franchises history is the guy with the most records, and the playoff runs they were apart of.

After this year, demar has enough records, and more than enough playoff runs than any one else in history. Including bosh. 2 mediocre years of bosh, will never be as good as 3 consecutive division leading and "potential" deep playoff run. Making it to the east finals will easily put BOTH Lowry and derozan above bosh. Becuz at the end of the day, all bosh really did with us, was or up big numbers. While derozan played a KEY role in a conference run.


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[JWash]

You don't think Bosh could be the number two guy and win as much as the Raptors have been? DeRozan never won as the number one guy, never got anywhere near the playoffs either. Bosh dragged this garbage team into the playoffs twice. All the team's success with DeMar needs to be attributed first and foremost to Lowry.

Bosh was here for years, was a constant all star presence, and was the best player here. DeRozan has been here for years.

I didn't say that. The reality is that he hasn't done it and never will. So I mean we can play shoulda/coulda/woulda scenarios as much as we want, but for me deciding the best players in franchise history comes down to body of work for that franchise. If DeRozan helps Lowry lead us to some deep playoff runs as the #2 guy he's clear-cut ahead of Bosh for me.

[planetmars]

Lowry will overtake Vince if he can get us past the 7th game in the 2nd round, or if he can get us to at least 2 second round visits.

For me its playoff success.

DD unfortunately has to play second fiddle to Lowry which will make it extremely difficult for him to get him past Bosh. And JV has to play 3rd fiddle which makes it even harder for him.

[A.I]

Lowry will overtake Vince if he can get us past the 7th game in the 2nd round, or if he can get us to at least 2 second round visits.

For me its playoff success.

DD unfortunately has to play second fiddle to Lowry which will make it extremely difficult for him to get him past Bosh. And JV has to play 3rd fiddle which makes it even harder for him.

JV is still young, his time will come.

[bertarapsfan]

as it stand i think the MOST TALENTED/BEST PLAYER in history would be
1.Vince
2.Mcgrady
3.Lowry
4.Bosh
5.Derozan
However the best RAPTOR ever is a diffrent story id have to rank the best raptor in history ( judging time with raptors,team success individual stats, and importance to franchise.
1.Vince
2.Derozan
3.Bosh
4.Lowry
5,Whoever

Demar gets a bump in greatest raptor simply because their is no Lowry without demar. we needed that type of guy who wasnt a star but had to work for it cause we were never gonna get that superstar talent. Demar developing within the orginization was so important. he helped us build. without him we dont get lowry. i believe this team we have no can be a stepping stone to get a legit superstar. the fact is we do not get to this point as a team without Demar (or another player growing to a star within the team). we could however have this good of a team with Demar + another pg. That why i would always rank Derozan ahead of Lowry as best raptor of all time

[Scraptor]

DD unfortunately has to play second fiddle to Lowry which will make it extremely difficult for him to get him past Bosh. And JV has to play 3rd fiddle which makes it even harder for him.

DeMar has never had to play second fiddle to Lowry. DeMar has averaged 28.6% usage over the last three years, while Lowry has averaged 24.5%. (Last four years it's 27.3 to 23.6 for DeMar.)

DeMar right now is simply not as great as Lowry, and I think that that is a basic assertion that can be supported by a ton of stats and the eye test.

That said, it is important to note a couple things. Lowry's first true All-Star caliber season was age 27. DeMar has yet to turn 27. So in my opinion you're going to see possibly four or five more years of prime DeMar, before he even begins to slow down.

So while I think Lowry will end up having the better peak for probably six or seven years, Demar will probably end up doing enough to get the edge when all is said and done, mainly due to longevity and being a homegrown dinosaur.

[planetmars]

DeMar has never had to play second fiddle to Lowry. DeMar has averaged 28.6% usage over the last three years, while Lowry has averaged 24.5%. (Last four years it's 27.3 to 23.6 for DeMar.)

DeMar right now is simply not as great as Lowry, and I think that that is a basic assertion that can be supported by a ton of stats and the eye test.

That said, it is important to note a couple things. Lowry's first true All-Star caliber season was age 27. DeMar has yet to turn 27. So in my opinion you're going to see possibly four or five more years of prime DeMar, before he even begins to slow down.

So while I think Lowry will end up having the better peak for probably six or seven years, Demar will probably end up doing enough to get the edge when all is said and done, mainly due to longevity and being a homegrown dinosaur.

Good point about DD's peak being longer.. it will be interesting to see how it all unfolds. I do suspect though that we will one day have a new coach and I think that may actually hurt DD and not help him. A new coach could lower DD's usage which could reduce his chances to succeed Lowry as the alpha dog on the team.

[planetmars]

JV is still young, his time will come.

JV needs a new coach / system before we can even start adding him to the discussion of all time great Raptors.

[JWash]

DeMar has never had to play second fiddle to Lowry. DeMar has averaged 28.6% usage over the last three years, while Lowry has averaged 24.5%. (Last four years it's 27.3 to 23.6 for DeMar.)

DeMar right now is simply not as great as Lowry, and I think that that is a basic assertion that can be supported by a ton of stats and the eye test.

That said, it is important to note a couple things. Lowry's first true All-Star caliber season was age 27. DeMar has yet to turn 27. So in my opinion you're going to see possibly four or five more years of prime DeMar, before he even begins to slow down.

So while I think Lowry will end up having the better peak for probably six or seven years, Demar will probably end up doing enough to get the edge when all is said and done, mainly due to longevity and being a homegrown dinosaur.

Good points here

[Barolt]

JV needs a new coach / system before we can even start adding him to the discussion of all time great Raptors.

The thing is, JV's numbers, right now are fantastic. Even with this coach/system which largely ignores him.

[Just Is]

as it stand i think the MOST TALENTED/BEST PLAYER in history would be
1.Vince
2.Mcgrady
3.Lowry
4.Bosh
5.Derozan
However the best RAPTOR ever is a diffrent story id have to rank the best raptor in history ( judging time with raptors,team success individual stats, and importance to franchise.
1.Vince
2.Derozan
3.Bosh
4.Lowry
5,Whoever

Demar gets a bump in greatest raptor simply because their is no Lowry without demar. we needed that type of guy who wasnt a star but had to work for it cause we were never gonna get that superstar talent. Demar developing within the orginization was so important. he helped us build. without him we dont get lowry. i believe this team we have no can be a stepping stone to get a legit superstar. the fact is we do not get to this point as a team without Demar (or another player growing to a star within the team). we could however have this good of a team with Demar + another pg. That why i would always rank Derozan ahead of Lowry as best raptor of all time

...what?

I was going to write more but that's what it pretty much boiled down to as I honestly don't even know where to start other than: could you please just further explain how you came to this conclusion.

[Barolt]

as it stand i think the MOST TALENTED/BEST PLAYER in history would be
1.Vince
2.Mcgrady
3.Lowry
4.Bosh
5.Derozan
However the best RAPTOR ever is a diffrent story id have to rank the best raptor in history ( judging time with raptors,team success individual stats, and importance to franchise.
1.Vince
2.Derozan
3.Bosh
4.Lowry
5,Whoever

Demar gets a bump in greatest raptor simply because their is no Lowry without demar. we needed that type of guy who wasnt a star but had to work for it cause we were never gonna get that superstar talent. Demar developing within the orginization was so important. he helped us build. without him we dont get lowry. i believe this team we have no can be a stepping stone to get a legit superstar. the fact is we do not get to this point as a team without Demar (or another player growing to a star within the team). we could however have this good of a team with Demar + another pg. That why i would always rank Derozan ahead of Lowry as best raptor of all time

This is insane. DeMar for the first 4-5 years of his career was basically OJ Mayo without the jump shot. Lowry has done far, far more for DeMar's career than the other way around. Lowry was well on his way to being an elite player his last year in Houston, before he got to Toronto. Masai deserves a lot of credit, however, for getting Lowry's head straight.

[bertarapsfan]

...what?

I was going to write more but that's what it pretty much boiled down to as I honestly don't even know where to start other than: could you please just further explain how you came to this conclusion.

Im not ranking best raptor based on talent. lowry's the better player. But i think Demar developing within the raps was more important than the lowry pick-up. if derozan didn't up his game year after year i think lowry put up good stats for 2 years. we become a treadmill team and he signes somewhere else. Demar is the reason Lowry stayed in my opinion. Plus being a homegrown raptor, always saying and doing the right things and sticking throught the tough times. Lowry was a fucking brat when he first came here.

[KeonClark]

Im not ranking best raptor based on talent. lowry's the better player. But i think Demar developing within the raps was more important than the lowry pick-up. if derozan didn't up his game year after year i think lowry put up good stats for 2 years. we become a treadmill team and he signes somewhere else. Demar is the reason Lowry stayed in my opinion. Plus being a homegrown raptor, always saying and doing the right things and sticking throught the tough times. Lowry was a fucking brat when he first came here.

I think people are confused by "we could however have just as good a team with demar + some other pg"

Unless "some other" means curry or paul

[Just Is]

Im not ranking best raptor based on talent. lowry's the better player. But i think Demar developing within the raps was more important than the lowry pick-up. if derozan didn't up his game year after year i think lowry put up good stats for 2 years. we become a treadmill team and he signes somewhere else. Demar is the reason Lowry stayed in my opinion. Plus being a homegrown raptor, always saying and doing the right things and sticking throught the tough times. Lowry was a fucking brat when he first came here.

...that's a ... interesting take. I literally disagree with everything here except for the second sentence.

Especially given the reason Lowry stayed is pretty well known [from the man himself] and the reason WASN'T Demar. It was Masai (and to a lesser extent, Billups).

In regards to the underlined...no. No, he wasn't. Especially given his reaction to being benched for Calderon and agreeing to play like a poor man's Calderon at that as well [despite being clearly better].

In regards to the bold...just no.

I think people are confused by "we could however have just as good a team with demar + some other pg"

Unless "some other" means curry or paul

That was one of the key things I saw there given all the evidence against this. Demar owes a LOT to Lowry [as was highlighted earlier this year when comparing Demar and Lowry when both are on the court and when one is off (and this is something that also easily passes the eye test as well). That's not a knock against Demar either.