DeRozan and Lowry will end up being the best raptors of all time

[bertarapsfan]

No not curry or paul. top 15 pg in the last 2 year instead of lowry we in the same position. Let me remind you we only have 1 full season of the star lowry. (this year and first half of last year) he has done nothing for us in playoffs. Yea he got us their but he hasnt moved the needle very much. I think with another pg we could make the playoffs and lose 1st round yea. Once lowry shows up in the playoffs ill give him his do. But to this point he has been a regular season stat stuffer who failed to take that next level in playoffs. Again a good showing this year and it could sway my opinion

[Barolt]

No not curry or paul. top 15 pg in the last 2 year instead of lowry we in the same position. Let me remind you we only have 1 full season of the star lowry. (this year and first half of last year) he has done nothing for us in playoffs. Yea he got us their but he hasnt moved the needle very much. I think with another pg we could make the playoffs and lose 1st round yea. Once lowry shows up in the playoffs ill give him his do. But to this point he has been a regular season stat stuffer who failed to take that next level in playoffs. Again a good showing this year and it could sway my opinion

No. DeMar's shown NO ability to lead the team as the number one guy.

[bertarapsfan]

...that's a ... interesting take. I literally disagree with everything here except for the second sentence.

Especially given the reason Lowry stayed is pretty well known [from the man himself] and the reason WASN'T Demar. It was Masai (and to a lesser extent, Billups).

In regards to the underlined...no. No, he wasn't. Especially given his reaction to being benched for Calderon and agreeing to play like a poor man's Calderon at that as well [despite being clearly better].

In regards to the bold...just no.


That was one of the key things I saw there given all the evidence against this. Demar owes a LOT to Lowry [as was highlighted earlier this year when comparing Demar and Lowry when both are on the court and when one is off (and this is something that also easily passes the eye test as well). That's not a knock against Demar either.

Im not talking to talent or best player here man.. im approaching it from the thread title. Who ends up being thought of as the greatest raptors. And yea i know masai and billups were huge for him but i still think he would go elsewere if we didnt have Demar. Having Demar made lowry see us a having a decent shot to be outside contenders in the east. Without demar a see Kyle going somewhere else trying to win a title with a team.

Again im not taking into account the play off Lowry and Demar tog on the court. Yes i agree Kyle has helped improve Demar's game more than vice versa. But we're debating whoo will go down as greatest raptors and that's my take

[bertarapsfan]

Demar could get us to back to back first round exits without lowry

[A.I]

Demar could get us to back to back first round exits without lowry

I'm not so sure the Raptors would make the Playoffs without Lowry.

[Just Is]

Demar could get us to back to back first round exits without lowry

The Raptors aren't a playoff team without Lowry [for the last two years; this year though, without Lowry, I could see them being in that 7 to 12 seed race].

The only possible argument for having Demar above Lowry (or Carter and Bosh) is longevity. That's it. Take Lowry away from the team; and the longevity wouldn't even matter.

[bertarapsfan]

...that's a ... interesting take. I literally disagree with everything here except for the second sentence.

Especially given the reason Lowry stayed is pretty well known [from the man himself] and the reason WASN'T Demar. It was Masai (and to a lesser extent, Billups).

In regards to the underlined...no. No, he wasn't. Especially given his reaction to being benched for Calderon and agreeing to play like a poor man's Calderon at that as well [despite being clearly better].

In regards to the bold...just no.



.

Lowry remembers his emotion on that day.

“Two and done and I'm going home,” he said.

He wanted nothing to do with the Raptors.

“I figured two years and I'd be a free agent and go somewhere else. This wasn't where I wanted to be. I tell people that all the time. You can't predict your future. You have to live it by the day.

Soo yea i would classify that as being a brat.

[Just Is]

Lowry remembers his emotion on that day.

“Two and done and I'm going home,” he said.

He wanted nothing to do with the Raptors.

“I figured two years and I'd be a free agent and go somewhere else. This wasn't where I wanted to be. I tell people that all the time. You can't predict your future. You have to live it by the day.

Soo yea i would classify that as being a brat.

...and you'd be wrong (if that's your definition of being a brat).

Not wanting to stay somewhere doesn't make you a brat. Not even close. Especially since it didn't impact his play or his attitude here.

[nubreed000]

Derozan will never impact a game the way Vince did. Lowry, yes, but not Demar. For all the added skills, Demar still doesn't really function within the team system all that well (better than before? yes, but still not where he should be) and it's too easy to shut him down.

[nubreed000]

...and you'd be wrong (if that's your definition of being a brat).

Not wanting to stay somewhere doesn't make you a brat. Not even close. Especially since it didn't impact his play or his attitude here.

Agreed. Look at the Morris in Phoenix...that's a brat. Lowry came here, played hard and didn't bitch at all.

[Superjudge]

So the sentiment here, as I am reading it, is that Kyle Lowry is SO good, that Toronto is a fringe team at best without him. Likely, they don't even make the Playoffs without him.

Is this correct, or am I misreading?

[DanH]

So the sentiment here, as I am reading it, is that Kyle Lowry is SO good, that Toronto is a fringe team at best without him. Likely, they don't even make the Playoffs without him.

Is this correct, or am I misreading?

They'd certainly be deep in that 5-10 muddle without him, at best.

[KeonClark]

So the sentiment here, as I am reading it, is that Kyle Lowry is SO good, that Toronto is a fringe team at best without him. Likely, they don't even make the Playoffs without him.

Is this correct, or am I misreading?

That is correct superjudge

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Despite the way his Raptors career ended, I still think Carter is at the top of this list, and it's not even close. Unless there's a requirement for # of years played, Carter was far better and more impactful to his team/franchise/fan base/city/country/league than any other Raptor, and he took the Raptors further into the playoffs than anyone else.

After Vinsanity, there's a big drop-off, where I think Bosh, Lowry and DeRozan all deserve to be mentioned.

The Raptors have had some solid role-players, who I think tend to get elevated by Toronto's blue-collar loving fans: Mo-P, Davis, Oakley, Alvin, Calderon, Amir, Ford, Christie, etc...

Guys like Stoudemire and McGrady could have been near the top of this list, had they not left town so quickly.

Should the Raptors get into (or past) the second round over the next few years, with the Lowry/DeRozan core, then I think they'd separate themselves from Bosh and start approaching VC. But not yet...

[KeonClark]

Despite the way his Raptors career ended, I still think Carter is at the top of this list, and it's not even close. Unless there's a requirement for # of years played, Carter was far better and more impactful to his team/franchise/fan base/city/country/league than any other Raptor, and he took the Raptors further into the playoffs than anyone else.

After Vinsanity, there's a big drop-off, where I think Bosh, Lowry and DeRozan all deserve to be mentioned.

The Raptors have had some solid role-players, who I think tend to get elevated by Toronto's blue-collar loving fans: Mo-P, Davis, Oakley, Alvin, Calderon, Amir, Ford, Christie, etc...

Guys like Stoudemire and McGrady could have been near the top of this list, had they not left town so quickly.

Should the Raptors get into (or past) the second round over the next few years, with the Lowry/DeRozan core, then I think they'd separate themselves from Bosh and start approaching VC. But not yet...

IF the Raptors get into the ecf you will see bedlam, approaching the blue jays fever of last year and probably eclipsing the height of vinsanity.